To be terrified by Farage/Reform's plans to replace the NHS with "an insurance based model"?

[Gillemeow]

It seems to have been largely overlooked by the mainstream media but Nigel Farage on the debate last night was clear that he thought the NHS should be replaced by an insurance model.

Given that most of the country are already crippled by the current cost of living crisis, how does he expect people to pay this extra cost? If employers have spare cash to do it (as in France or the USA where many get insurance via their employer), why aren't they giving decent wage rises?

His plans would penalise people with existing health conditions. And which sex would end up paying more.for insurance? The one that gives birth and goes through menopause or the one that doesn't?

In France contraception is only free if you're under 26. What if you're not? Will the right wing's phrase of choice on children change from "don't have children of you can't afford them" to "don't have sex if you can't afford it"?

You think they are lying? It was just the first hit, but it’s something fairly well documented. The problem with infrastructure is lack of investment, not immigration.

"Posting a screenshot of something written on a corporate immigration lawyers firm website is disingenuous and basically proves you have no real arguments."

According you. The gospel.

If you mean Labour, then it's a big NO, because
I was born in a Communist country. 😁

As someone who has lived in a country that uses insurance based healthcare, I'd be fine with it. I had better healthcare.

Sorry, don’t see the connection. Labour are not and have never been even vaguely related to comm7 ism. Socialism and communism are two different things. Labour is a social Democratic Party, which is a different thing again.
Unless what you are telling me is that you can’t choose because you have zero political knowledge…
Also, no, I didn’t say Labour. There are several centre left options depending on where 8n the country you live.

Well, I'm probably not as knowledgeable about politics as you, however, I really wouldn't choose from a "centre left".

That is not how the French system works. However,yes,I bet that we would end up with the American system.

You didn't answer any of the questions posed in the post that this is your reply to.

As for your other, largely inaccurate or unsubstantiated, comments elsewhere on the thread about immigrants - other countries such as Austria and Germany have higher rates of immigration per capita than the UK has, but can still afford and provide a better healthcare service. Maybe they are better at predicting and planning these services. Perhaps they invested money while it was available during the good times rather than giving it away in the form of tax reductions, only to find later that they'd underinvested in essential services. Maybe they are better at using the extra taxation generated by the work done by the "immigrants" - work that wouldn't be done if there was nobody to do it.

Imo you could put an infinite amount of money into the NHS and it still could not deliver.

As someone who was also born and raised in a communist country, I’m afraid it’s you who has no idea. Socialism is a step on the way to communism.

Worshipping big government as a solution to all societal problems ends in one thing: government having absolute power over people and an eventual collapse of the system due to oligarchy and lack of productivity

Labour are a curious bunch who want state ownership of everything, ever higher taxes for the ordinary people but also open borders so massive corporate interests have unrestricted access to cheap workforce while the taxpayer tops up cr*p wages.

What you’ll finally get is fascism = a union of government and big business. It’s really irrelevant whether it calls itself right or left wing

Been there done that. No thanks.

Plus, many in Labour actually are self-proclaimed commies and have brought Mao’s little red book to the Parliament before.

Why though? It can’t be any connection with communism, which is the reason you gave.

Ok. Going to disregard everything you say after ‘socialism is a step on the way to communism’ because it shows a total lack of understanding of politics.
Edit: do you also see conservatism as a stop on the way to fascism?

And? What has Starmer’s Labour Party got to do with Communisim? Goodness me, this is hilarious!

What matters is how much money the NHS has, not where that money comes from. An insurance-based model doesn't automatically mean more money is available and, even if it did turn out that way, how is that fairer than taking the money from general taxation - with tax increases if necessary?

Rewis · Today 16:19

Is he supporting insurnace model like the USA or the one in Germany? Or private occupational healthcare for employees like in Finland?

Farridge would like an American style one, or at least, he's been lobbying on behalf of American medical insurance companies for years.

No. Personal responsibility which is at the heart of true conservatism has nothing to do with fascism.

Actually, it’s Karl Marx who has said that socialism is a step towards communism so I’m not too sure who’s showing their ignorance here? It’s in his manifesto, perhaps you should read it (I have, it was compulsory to read where I was born).

Here is a handy summary:

‘Communism has two phases. The first or lower phase of communism is called as socialism that is the phase between capitalism and communism. The second or higher phase of communism is the perfect stage. There is no inequality or injustice in this stage.’

https://www.j-humansciences.com/ojs/index.php/IJHS/article/view/3152#:~:text=Communism%20has%20two%20phases.,or%20injustice%20in%20this%20stage.

Well it wasn’t in the post war Golden age period where under Attlee the welfare state system was set up. My parents and grandparents were very welcoming of that prosperity and my parents being young in late 60s said they never had it so good with jobs, uni education for working classes not just the rich and good housing- absolutely nothing like communism. I was young under Blair government again, nothing like communism but it was certainly better than now!

Out of interest when did you move to the UK, was it under a Labour government? I think you don’t know much about British political history if you associate new Labour with Communism!

I believe you. I’m not a fan of social Darwinism. But I believe in facts, logic and personal responsibility.

The population was smaller and better balanced in the 1960s.

Pension age was 66 or 67 and life expectancy 71. So the ratio of young va old people was different.

Big pharma did not exist and not as much taxpayer’s money was spent on expensive treatments. These treatments today prolong lives but are not without consequences.

Wages were enough to live on without having to have them subsidised by the taxpayer (how big business make they money today - pay a pittance and the taxpayer will chip in)

People were generally healthier due to less processed food. More illnesses were fatal but fewer chronic (opposite today).

Just a few examples of why it was cheaper to have a better standard of living

Western governments have bought into the delusion that all of the above can be addressed by importing people from abroad but this has turned out to be a trap.

We need to have an honest conversation what we want and how to get there. We can’t be increasing taxes forever but something will have to give eventually.

In my country, unless your parents had access to medical supplies, you had your compulsory vaccinations at school with the same needle as the rest of the class/year (they only changed it when it got too blunt). We don’t know what they put in those vaccines and we didn’t have any investigation let alone compensation scheme.

But we were busy every day building the socialist paradise. 1000 new schools. 500 new hospitals. The joys of planned economy. But if my mum wanted me to have a slice of ham for breakfast, she had to get up at 3am and queue in front of the shop (didn’t open until 6am). We had food rations until the very end (late 1980s/early 1990s).

People who didn’t like it tend to just disappear if they let their true feelings slip.

Farage is selling this as could be a European type health insurance- which sounds fairly palatable- he sold brexit by talking about Norway type deals - he lies. What would ultimately happen, if he gets his way into effective power, is a US type system to help his mates in insurance over there - I think it’s literally his real paid for job tbh.
I’m not terrified for the next term of gov’t but certainly do have some worries for my kids/grandkids and their future health.

I think Labour might have associated itself :)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2015/nov/25/the-chairman-mao-moment-mcdonnell-throws-the-little-red-book-at-osborne-video

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10898627/PETER-HITCHENS-Revolutionary-past-gives-lie-notion-Keir-Starmer-moderate.html

For those of you talking about needing an insurance system, have you ever looked at the US numbers and the excess (they call ir co-pay) that they have to pay? Give birth and it'll still cost you a few grand. Get cancer treatment and you'll still need to pay 20k.
A massive part of the problem here is the unhealthy lifestyles we lead. Over 10% of the NHS budget is spent in diabetes, which in the vast majority of cases if preventable and can be put into remission. I'm not saying this thinking that I live the perfect lifestyle, I don’t, but I still recognise the issue.

In which case how are those who can't afford the premiums supposed to access healthcare?

The same way as they do in the many countries that have a social insurance based system - credits/exemptions from the state.

It's been explained several times in this thread.

I haven't read the whole of thread. I'm not a Reform supporter. However I have experienced the state of the NHS over the last month and urgently it needs reform.

My OH had experienced spells of dizziness. He finally obtained a GP appt. The GP (thankfully) said to be on the safe side I'm sending you to A&E. Once again, thankfully, she had called ahead to the hospital - my husband only sat in A&E for 4 hours - I sat on the floor. A&E was stuffed full. He was admitted to the stroke ward; we found out later from others admitted to the stroke ward that they had waited OVER 7 hours in A&E. Unfortunately the MRI scanner was broken. No scans could be done. This meant that the consultants didn't know if it was a bleed or something else - makes it hard to prescribe drugs. It took DAYS before the scanner was fixed. In the meantime my husband, plus all the others on the acute stroke ward were bed blocking because they couldn't be released, (no scans had been done). My husband's experience over the nights he was on the ward was variable - his view was that some shifts were excellent, and some were dreadful - (playing the radio loud at night/chatting away/not updating records etc). My OH had had a small stroke. He was lucky that the GP was so on the ball.