To be terrified by Farage/Reform's plans to replace the NHS with "an insurance based model"?

[Gillemeow]

It seems to have been largely overlooked by the mainstream media but Nigel Farage on the debate last night was clear that he thought the NHS should be replaced by an insurance model.

Given that most of the country are already crippled by the current cost of living crisis, how does he expect people to pay this extra cost? If employers have spare cash to do it (as in France or the USA where many get insurance via their employer), why aren't they giving decent wage rises?

His plans would penalise people with existing health conditions. And which sex would end up paying more.for insurance? The one that gives birth and goes through menopause or the one that doesn't?

In France contraception is only free if you're under 26. What if you're not? Will the right wing's phrase of choice on children change from "don't have children of you can't afford them" to "don't have sex if you can't afford it"?

Check the data from 2023 then. 34th.

I think you would be stupid to underestimate Nigel farage, say what you like about him he is much more black & white than the others and not afraid of being controversial. He will win a lot more votes than people anticipate I suspect.

Farage is the front man for American liberalism. He appeals to the base instincts of the racists and nationalists, as that’s the way in, but his real motive is to make us more ‘American’.

His backers are the same people who pushed Brexit and scream about socialism. Their plan is to soften us up for American style insurance based healthcare, as well as the type of Darwinian extremes between rich and poor you see in San Francisco. It’s a well oiled machine. Reform isn’t even a political party, it’s a limited company.

He represents the type of world people like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel want to see. Winners (them) snd Losers (the rest of us).

In my book charge those who misuse the NHS turn up drunk or on on drugs attack staff ring an ambulance for a broken nail or check in on Facebook or regularly make and then miss appointments stop prescribing stuff like aspirin and other reasonable priced over the counter medications this would save condiserable time and money for the staff and also let genuine patients use the NHS with confidence

I have made the decision that I will not have another child unless I can afford to give birth privately after my experience of giving birth on the NHS.

The NHS is broken to the core and throwing more money at it isn’t going to fix it. It needs to change and adapt to an ailing and ageing population. Is Farage the best man for the job? Probably not, but at some point it will have to change.

Absolute this and the older Daily who won't live to see its affects will vote them in like they voted in Brexit. So you are right to be terrified because it probably will happen eventually.

Ah, the wonderful NHS. So good, yet no other country has sought to copy it. Weird, that.

The more money we throw at it, the worse it gets.

If we want a healthcare system that works, we need to get over this religious devotion to the NHS and look seriously at the countries which are getting it right – and they will have insurance-based schemes.

Yes. I’m aware. Why do you think that might have changed? Anyth8ng to do with underinvestment under the Tories at all?
We can have 2010 again.

This 100%. Stop worshipping it and start seeing it for what it is.

I lived in a European country and paid a sort of separate monthly tax for healthcare. Made a lot of sense. System was great.

A mixture of large net migration, underfunding and chronic mismanagement (public money is cheap to spend if there’s no accountability for anything).

Are you proposing mass deportations? Otherwise we won’t have 2010 again unless taxes increase again and most can’t afford another tax hike.

Firstly, he's not going to be Prime Minister so it's not worth losing sleep over.

Secondly, look at the French healthcare system. It is 70% funded by the government (though taxes) and then citizens pay for a small insurance policy which covers the other 30%. Apparently it's very well liked and they have brilliant health care. The State covers 100% for those who don't work etc.

From my perspective, the NHS should absolutely always be something the government funds and which is also always freely available to everyone but clearly the current model in the UK just doesn't work. I don't think NF is suggesting a US model (which is frankly ridiculous) but more of a French model.

In either event, it's irrelevant. It's unlikely he will get into power.

That was supposed to be what the UK National Insurance scheme would cover - Pensions and Healthcare.

1. UK Politicians hi-jacked the funding and failed to ring-fence them for the intended purpose, failed to increase the contributions to account for inflation and for the increased demands being made on the system. They broke the Social Contract. When times were good, they gave tax breaks to their voters and to businesses rather than investing in "fixing the roof while the sun was shining".

2. The delivery of healthcare has been shackled by incompetence and bad decisions made by politicians, partly due to the underinvestment but also to investing in the wrong things (or making savings in the wrong areas at the wrong time). There has also been an failure to plan - the politicians have had 60 years to plan for what would happen when the baby boomer generation reached retirement age, both in terms of how many people would need care and how many experienced healthcare professionals would be retiring.

I'm inclined to agree with this as we can't continue as we are.
Without increased government funding (taxation) the NHS will not cope with the excess demands placed on it.

No, I’m proposing proper funding. More people doesn’t mean worse services. It just means more infrastructure is needed. The NHS has been run down.

No we just need to be sensible about the NHS and stop pandering to those who use it as a day out if an ambulance charged a drunk. Person before taking them to hospital or if someone was charged everytime they checked in on Facebook if you checking in on Facebook you clearly well enough to stay home and not need ane or arrived with police or on drugs and I mean charged for the ambulance ride the time they sit in ane charged for the meds and equipment used to treat themt n charged for every subsequent visit or missed appointment t and there was a register for these type of idiotic time wasters then this would release series pressure off the NHS as these time wasters would fizzle out as it to expensive and no longer a fun day out to ane for them I feel this is the solution

@Pigletsoink "That man (a close relative who has worked and contributed since the age of 16, now middle aged) is waiting for 18 months for treatment (lost his job in the meantime and his home), because there is always someone else who hasn’t contributed a penny who is more of a priority. Been there, seen it. It’s a farce."

How do you know that the medics chose to treat the other person first for any reason other than that their condition was judged to be of a greater medical priority? Were you party to this decision-making?

Are you saying that medical treatment should be rationed on the basis of who has "contributed" the most? How do you measure the "contribution" - in financial terms such as taxation paid, or in terms of the money that the government saves when, for example, a carer looks after a relative and is paid a pittence?

How do you account for the "value" of someone's "contribution" - is it the money someone has already contributed, or the "value" they might contribute in the future - in which case it would make more sense to treat the young and economically active so that they can "contribute" more in the future and leave the old and infirm to die so that they don't become a burden on the system, which would be an awful dehumanised and dystopian way forward.

They wont win, so why would it matter

"An incurrence system is essential asap."

This made me laugh.

Fancy getting recurring cancer on an insurance system? You won't be covered.

Utterly utterly stupid.

Excellent post. I know many people who have worked in the NHS for 30+ years. They all say that it is unsustainable and inefficient. Putting in more money - without proper reform, eg an insurance system - would be like pouring water into a bucket with a hole in the bottom.
And there are undoubtedly a (minority) who misuse it because they believe it to be "free".

He said we have increased the funding a lot and it’s not working so we need to look at and consider schemes for example france to see if reform would help ? Seems sensible to me? How does it work in Spain as well ? They both also went through covid but things seem much more efficient ?

What happens in france and Spain then ?

No chance of reform getting in due to our electoral system so don't stress!

Is that how it works in Spain as well ?

Yet another poster who does not understand the difference between a "Social Insurance" model - as found in much of Europe - and the US-Style commercial insurance model.

The commercial, US-style free-market insurance system should never be permitted in the UK - as you rightly say, it would be impossible for people with cancer to get affordable cover and there is enough evidence from the US to show that it causes poverty and destitution in the US.

The European Social Insurance model is still a Universal Healthcare model, but the insurance is provided by mutual, non-profit Funds backed by the State. No citizen is disqualified or has their healthcare cancelled because of any pre-existing conditions. Nobody is charged a higher premium based on their health profiles because there are no "premuims" - payment is a percentage of earnings.
It is really not very different from what the UK National Insurance model was supposed to be before the politicians hi-jacked it. The big difference in Europe is how, where and by whom the treatment is delivered - there is no NHS virtual monopoly controlled by Ministers, and private providers of healthcare are only paid fixed rates by the Funds - they cannot charge what they want or hold the system to ransom.