To be terrified by Farage/Reform's plans to replace the NHS with "an insurance based model"?

[Gillemeow]

It seems to have been largely overlooked by the mainstream media but Nigel Farage on the debate last night was clear that he thought the NHS should be replaced by an insurance model.

Given that most of the country are already crippled by the current cost of living crisis, how does he expect people to pay this extra cost? If employers have spare cash to do it (as in France or the USA where many get insurance via their employer), why aren't they giving decent wage rises?

His plans would penalise people with existing health conditions. And which sex would end up paying more.for insurance? The one that gives birth and goes through menopause or the one that doesn't?

In France contraception is only free if you're under 26. What if you're not? Will the right wing's phrase of choice on children change from "don't have children of you can't afford them" to "don't have sex if you can't afford it"?

A lot of people do, but I think politicians think it's a bigger issue than it is.

I would happily pay higher taxes if we had good public services. I do not like paying tax that gets wasted eg HS2, PPE waste, doubling up on everything we had in the EU.

Where are you? What you describe is not the usual European "Krankenkasse" model.

Where I live the employers' contribution is a direct form of taxation - just as Employers' National Insurance is paid in the UK. The higher the salary, the higher the contribution from both employee and employer. There is only one Health Fund (there used to be several; e.g. one for Public Sector employees, different ones for different industries reflecting the origin of Health Funds) so to access treatment, you just present your Health Card. There is no need to phone different "insurers" as there is only one Fund - and the Health Card has direct electronic access to the Fund, so the GP, Consultant or hospital is paid directly through an automated process.

GP appointments are free, as are all other appointments with Consultants and hospital treatment, and the regular annual checks that people typically have - well woman, well man, gynae, breast cancer, glaucoma checks etc - are free. Where I currently live, everyone over 50 gets a free, annual top-to-toe "MOT" health check (which would cost about £250 in the UK at a private clinic) which includes a 20 minute consultation with the GP to go over the results. GP surgeries are open early in the morning, and have a late night once a week.

Most of Europe operates on an insurance system. It’s not much different from the NHS. We pay National Insurance onto a central tax pot, but it’s broadly the same idea, just differently organised. Everyone has access to healthcare. It doesn’t mean only those can afford it get it.

To have a European model will be long and complicated. Looking at the Spire shares for the last five years so pre COVID. They're making money but what exists now couldn't take much more.

UK will need to match other European with funding first

Yep it's going to hurt. The australians attempted a take over bid of the Spire a few years ago. So they knew there was money to be made. The bald eagle circles around us.

To be honest we're not in a position to go it alone we don't have the expertise.

We need employers on board as we did with pensions, that was a battle. This will be a much bigger one.

My husbands grandfather was a dental surgeon. As well as his practice he would visit factories to sort out the staffs teeth. In those days pre first world war it was extractions only I daresay.

Interestingly both my FIL and his brother were very careful with their teeth and kept every tooth to their dying day.

completely agree with you.

It seems like the politicians (the few with power) already have a notion then only look for agreeing evidence.

Im frustrated with them all.

An international company did a time and motion study on a hospital in n west England. They were there for quite a time, came up with some good stuff having spoken to every single department and listened to the issues. From porters to consultants. Unfortunately the report cut administration amongst other suggestions.

The report was buried.

So I'm tempted to offer up a hospital as an experiment saying, here's the budget prove to us you can do better.

It won't be pretty, there will be uproar from certain quarters but what have we got to lose. We've already got the highest mortality rate in Europe.

Like Reform are going to form a government. I wouldn't waste a moment's thought on Reform and their "policies".

YABU.

His last party resulted in brexit.

I would be concerned.

But who exactly are you talking about taxing ?

Because higher earners are already leaving due to high taxation. Because after paying tax, they are left with less disposable than those who aren’t!

I don’t agree with the American model, but Irish, Australian etc ….

We really cannot go on as we are tbh. There is a brain drain of British Medical Graduates because conditions and pay are just so bad.

Honestly, the NHS are just fighting fires at the moment, which means other stuff is kicked down the road and eventually also becomes a fire.

The other thing is the UK is becoming more litigious, this give rise to more red tape and things become even slower due to all the box ticking.

Easy to say when you haven't lived with a chronic genetic health condition all your life.

There's a post above which explains how little the UK invests in healthcare compared with other countries. Germany invests 30% more per person every year - so every 3 years, the UK falls behind Germany by an entire year's worth of investment. This has huge consequences - from the day-to-day issue of being able to see a GP or consultant, and the length of waiting lists (where I live, there are no waiting lists) to the really serious issues such as those the UK faced during the Covid pandemic. Germany had far more ventilators and intensive care beds than the UK - which resulted in far fewer deaths from Covid. The UK government's lack of investment cost lives - and continues to cost lives.

Nigel Farage has got to be better than any party we have now. I have read their contract/manifesto and I have to agree with reform. They get my vote! Of course they can only get a voice if they get some mp's in and I think and hope they do, it'll certainly make politics much more interesting and help us all

Hi Nigel!

they's be luck to get one mp

Their suggestions for vouchers etc if you can't get an appointment with a GP within 3 days are lovely. But they won't happen.

Also, they want to dismantle the Equality Act and employment rights which will have a negative impact on health, alongside all the other bad things it will cause.

Anyone who is taken in by Reform is as stupid as those who were taken in by the Nazis.

If Farage ever gets power, I am claiming asylum somewhere else. He will absolutely destroy the social contract.

As for the person who said I haven't lived with a genetic condition do you have evidence that people with things like diabetes or say Cystic Fibrosis have worse outcomes in places like France and Germany?

That’s not the point. He has influence and he is dangerous.

Brexit happened in part due to his nonsense.

he is "dangeous" and i've said it many times
I blame the voters that voted in brexit, ie easily fooled/led, call it what you want!!

he is a one-man band and I he he f's off to the USA !!!

Your post makes zero sense @DistinguishedSocialCommentator

Are you a bot?

We're in Wales devolved NHS so vouchers aren't on the agenda.

Looks at America. Looks back at the UK.

No it's definitely possible to be worse than either of the two main parties in the UK.

I'd say you were clearly somewhat lacking in imagination, but there are plenty of actual examples.

Are you on glue? 😂

Farage and his Brexit party private company

Well the French healthcare model is considered one of the best in Europe so anything that moves us towards that is a good thing in my opinion. The NHS is completely fucked and no amount of pouring more money into it will save it. It's not fit for purpose and hasn't been for at least 20 years. It's time to dismantle it and build it again from the ground up using a completely different model.