To ignore school mum's pain

[tokibiko]

One of DD's best friends at school (aged 7) has parents whose marriage appears to be on the rocks. I don't know the mum well - it's more of a hi/bye thing at drop off and pick up - but bumped into her on the street the other day. She randomly burst into tears and made all sorts of serious allegations against her husband, none of them I want to repeat here because they could be outing her/me. The allegations are all to do with the dad's behaviour against the mum, not DD's friend. The woman seems to be in a bad way and on the verge of a breakdown.

I don't know the family well enough to know if she is telling the truth or to speak to the dad for his side of the story (nor do I want to). The best friend seems happy and cheerful whenever I see her at drop off / pick up time - but obviously I do have a concern about whether the child in question would be picking up on the aforementioned issues at home, should the allegations be real.

AIBU to ignore this? Or should I speak to someone at school (e.g. safeguarding contact, even though at this point the concern is for the school mum rather than the children).

Edited to add - I was sworn to secrecy by the mum. She doesn't want to take it up with anyone.

That’s not true. The child has to be present. How can you be a victim of something if you wasn’t even there.

No one knows what type of abuse of even if the child was present

Number one safeguarding rule when a kid makes a disclosure is never EVER promise to keep it a secret.

You know the woman's child. She's your daughter's best friend. She is (at best) living in a house with an awful atmosphere, potentially witnessing and experiencing domestic abuse and/or violence.

This child is defenceless and needs support.

Speak to the school and step back. The woman is an adult and can make choices. Her daughter can't.

Deary me. Have you even bothered to read at least the first post??

This. She needs to trust you. However, I would make her aware that you would need to tell someone if it did involve her dc. Without knowing what she said then it's hard to say what you should do other than to be a shoulder to cry on, which it sounds like you were.

It's a societal responsibility to protect the defenceless, surely?

Fuck me, if the kid was battered and bruised but the mum swore op to secrecy would THAT be ok?

Just because some abuse doesn't leave a mark doesn't mean it's not abuse.

This is an excellent post. At the least, encourage her to contact a crisis helpline or Women’s Aid. Kids who witness abuse, whether physical, emotional, etc, tend to have poorer life outcomes.

It’s unlikely that she wouldn’t be aware of it.

No absolutely not, the one important thing you are taught in safeguarding is that if someone discloses something that is potentially putting a child at risk you cannot keep to yourself. You can listen to their concerns but you cannot promise not to pass on that information if it needs to be disclosed.

As someone who works in education, no one can tell me anything which involves a child that I can then promise not to tell the safeguarding team. That is what we are trained to do, and really this should apply to everyone. Looking out for the welfare of all children is everyone's responsibility, it's then down to the safeguarding team to investigate or just file that information.

Often we find people disclose to someone they feel comfortable to when they are reaching out for help. This goes for children to it's not always the adult they spend the most time with either like a teacher, it can be any random member of staff who just shows a bit of kindness.

Is the kid battered and bruised? Had the kid witnessed anything? Do you know what type of abuse is going on?

What are you protecting exactly?

Op it's odd that she's your child's BF and you don't know much about them? I have been inside and had coffee and chats with all my dc friends parents.

Anyway, I too would lend a sympathetic ear but be wary. If she doesn't know you well, why would she seek you out with all this? I would be a bit skeptical really. The best thing would be to approach school in confidence and let them know. Maybe they will be able to tie a few things together or not.
In the mean time there's good suggestions of contacts she could get in touch with.

YABU - why on EARTH would you see a women on the edge, trying to keep everything together and clearly managing to shield her child from it and think ‘let me check if this is true’ with her ?abuser.

you need to actually become self aware and work on your own bias if your go to is not to believe a woman in distress. I feel so sorry for her that she reached out to you and you would consider asking her husband to confirm it!!!!! Why does his word matter more than her?!

personally because I’m not a sexist monster : I would reach out more, offer support to encourage strength in her and let her know she has a bolt home at mine. No questions asked. And offer to have the child whenever needed. Coz if she is considering leaving and there is abuse then a) financial control can prevent leaving and she could be thrown in to poverty if you get school involved. It needs planning.
b) she’s most at risk of being murdered if she is being abused and tries to leave. Statistically speaking.
murdered.
so no I wouldn’t ask her husband to confirm if he is abusive. Because NEWSFLASH: abusers lie.

christ.

Who would you report that to? A woman may be horrified that her husband uses sex workers but neither social services nor the police will be interested if the children know nothing about it.

serious allegations against her husband, none of them I want to repeat here because they could be outing her/me. The allegations are all to do with the dad's behaviour against the mum, not DD's friend. The woman seems to be in a bad way and on the verge of a breakdown.

From the op.

Any child living in a household where abuse is happening IS AT RISK. The mother 'is in a bad way' - that in itself is a huge red flag that the child is at risk.

@totallynotstressingatall you are completely missing the point - the child (or even the mum) don't have to have physical marks for it to be abuse. The child doesn't have to have any signs at all (though if they are witnessing abuse or living in an 'atmosphere' I'd bet my life their behaviour has some changes).

A parent has disclosed allegations of abuse. The child is at risk. It really is that simple.

Posters recommending to support the mum without notifying the school 'because they don't want to get involved' are actually getting more emotionally involved and taking on the burden of responsibility, rather than passing it onto trained safeguarding staff.

Protecting the child from the growing up thinking violence and DA dynamics are normal? From the fear caused by knowing that aggressive/violent acts are being committed in their home? Potentially being the victim of violence themselves?

I mean the mother probably isn’t “battered and bruised”, doesn’t mean everything’s ok.

It is true. Children who are living in a home where there is DA are considered victims under the law. They do not have to be in the room when the abuse happens or see it happening to experience emotional harm, hence the change in the law.

No im not missing the point. I know too well what happens in these situations. The burden becomes the mothers.

In an ideal world SS would come, help her find a path way to leave, offer councilling and financial support.

That does not happen.

You ‘passing it on’ it only reliving you of the burden of knowing. It’s not actually helping. Your throwing a bomb in to someone’s life then going home to start dinner for your family completely guilt free.

If he is being violent towards her then you have to inform the school, because the child lives there. Imagine how you'd feel if the dad did something to the child, just because you didn't want to make trouble for yourself.

I know a little bit about counselling...not much, I used to work with a counsellor professionally. They never ever said a word about what they did but used to talk a bit about their training. I remember being told that people don't tell others things unless there is some part of them that wants someone to do something. Whether that person should be you or not is something you need to decide.

They’d have to investigate to ascertain whether the children know about it presumably.

So you would be happy for the child to go in care?

Do you know much about children in care?

Sometimes it really is out of the frying pan in to the fire

Do you have much experience of family court?

Do you have much experience in dealing with SS?

OR you could actually try and talk again to the mother, see what’s going on whilst she is calmer and help sign post her to organisations like Refuge. Who don’t, by the way advocate having SS on speed dial

Do you think the dc are in danger or witnessing abuse?

I don't want to derail the thread but just to put to bed the notion that children are only harmed by what they actually see or if they're physically hurt themselves, Section 3 of the Domestic Abuse Act 2021 came into force on 31 January 2022 and specifically provides that a child (under 18 years old) who sees, hears, or is affected by the impact of domestic abuse and is related to the victim or the suspect is also to be regarded as a victim. The legislation makes clear that a child does not have to be present during incidents to be considered a victim under the law. This change came about because it is now very well documented that children living in Domestically Abusive households experience emotional and psychological harm even when they do not directly witness abuse.

Exactly. What an insult calling us busybodies.

It's a tricky situation, but when there are children involved surely we have a duty to report. I would hope they would be discrete and say it was an anonymous report and not connected to her.

Children can still be victims because of the after effects or other threats or comments that might be made in their hearing...because they might see the injuries and so on, also because of the fear or other behaviours of the abused person.

Thank you so much for this. It's very helpful.