To not make 22 month old say please and thank you

[Sleepygrumpyandnothappy]

Obviously I encourage it sometimes, but generally I’m not fussed about ‘please’ and ‘thank you’.

DS (not yet 2) is a late talker and not really stringing two words together. If he’s persistently asking for more I’ll encourage him to say please, and I always model “thank you” but otherwise it’s not something we prioritise. I was very aware seeing SIL at the weekend that their two year old is told to say please and thank you all the time. Eg “would you like an apple or banana”, “banana”, “say ‘banana please’”. I find it quite jarring as it’s used far more than normal adult speech would require/expect.

Are we bringing DS up to be a rude little horror?

Not in this case no, 22 months is very relevant to opinions on his speech level compared to 24 months. My daughters speech at 2 and 4 months is very different from 2 and 1 month and very different again from 22 months.

@Sleepygrumpyandnothappy

It’s on the cusp of delay yes. Should be 20 words by 18 months and 50 words by second birthday. So as your child is not yet two that’s not technically delayed yet. And you may be surprised how fast words are picked up in their language explosion around this age. Certainly nothing to panic over immediately. 2-3 word sentences expected at second birthday eg “more milk” does your child do this? Less words isn’t such a worry if they are doing short sentences and can follow instructions and show age appropriate understanding of language. If you are thinking about please and thank you I'm going to assume your child is managing this. You should raise it with the HV regardless though as there is a national shortage of SALT therapists and should your child need it there will be a waiting list they probably won’t make any referrals until you actually get to age 2 when HV does a 2 year check.

Is your child in childcare? They should also do a 2 year check which will flag any areas of development that need support.

Ultimately the bulk of the work on language needs to be done at home so it won’t hurt to look up ways to support at home. Your LA family information service website should have information on local advice and services so check there.

Oh and also when talking about child development it’s correct to say 22 months rather than nearly two. I’m used to filling in development checks where I would say 36 months for example. They are developing so fast at that age a couple months is a big difference. My own autistic child recently had a report that referred to him as age 7 and x months which had me raise an eyebrow. You only say two and a half etc when having general chit chat to mums at the park and things like that (because it is weird to call a 3 year old 36 months in that situation). Anything related to your child's development include the months.

I'd teach them how to sign please and thank you if they're not saying it. Manners are important

Thank you @PurpleBugz. We had about 2 words at 18 months, definitely not 20. His understanding is very good but the speech is a struggle. Nursery said about a month ago that they weren’t worried “anymore” because he had a bit of an explosion and I can hear it picking up all the time now (mama became mummy for the first time yesterday) but we’re not at 50 words and no sentences. He says something that sounds like “I want that” and he will sometimes say “in there” to mean he wants to go to bed, but we don’t have “more milk” or functional sentences.

I’d forgotten about the 2 year health check. His communication section was a real outlier at 1 years but actually the HV said she wasn’t worried as she could hear how he babbled, how he was spoken to, see his understanding etc. I feel on paper he’s now less behind so it’ll be interesting to see what they say.

You're not bringing him up to be a rude little horror, but they learn through repetition.

My elder boys were in a speech and language unit for infant school, we still parrotted the pleases and the thank yous back at them. They're 15 (and brother is 12) and I still do it if they neglect to say it!

How is it more than an adult is required? I say please every time I ask for something and I say thank you when I receive it. Basic manners. They are really important and as a teacher, students who have lovely manners always stand out.

I really don’t understand people who don’t teach their children manners. My kids are always remarked upon because it’s second nature to them.

My eldest, now an adult, is severely autistic and has never really developed any functional language. My daughter was late to talk, very late. She was late with every single milestone, didn’t pull to stand until 15 months, crawled shortly after and then walking at around 18 months. She didn’t babble even, just was completely silent. However she understood everything we said and could easily follow quite complex directions from quite young. Everyone assumed I’d be worried she too was autistic but I wasn’t. She was very different to my son, was more present, showed us things and wanted attention from us. She said her first word a month before his third birthday. When starting school her speech was still very unclear. It got better and better though as time went in. By about 7 years old she didn’t stand out from others her age speech wise. She was academically behind and very slow to learn to read. At 11 she was diagnosed with Dyslexia. When researching I found an article with early indicators and late milestones and speech were listed.

Never said I didn’t teach how to hold a knife and fork and what cutlery is used for what course or how to be polite to people and why. But I also taught them the swear words to keep them safe but it is no good standing in front of a non verbal child saying “what’s the magic word”

As a teen, anyone condescending enough to try and alter my speech pattern would get put firmly in their place. Didn’t anyone ever tell them it is rude to do that

Maybe it is an English thing to ask for things saying please. Do you also say thank you if you don’t receive what you asked for?

@Yalta I am not English I am Irish. My understanding is using cutlery is etiquette not manners. I don't have the typical English attitude towards very distinctly English behaviour.

Swearing won't protect people speaking articulately and behaving assertively will. Saying thank you is practically a default and it is very noticeable as rude in my peer group, work, etc.

If a child asks for something and the answer is no, I don't expect a thank you. If I an adult asks and a person can not give it then I say ok thank you.

Manners cost nothing and are a key feature in Irish society. I appreciate other nationalities culturally don't have the same approach. But I expect people to respect the culture they live within.

What about those of us who don’t feel safe within this culture

Swearing and shouting at people who want to take advantage of you works I have found. No matter how articulate they are

No it doesn't it is unacceptable and abusive. Thankfully in most contexts it will be reprimanded. Nobody needs to be exposed to your abusive behaviour.

Your abusive behaviour impacts everyone on that environment and shows up lack of communication skills, bad manners and questionable emotional intelligence.

So you teach your children it is manners at all times. If someone starts a conversation that they find uncomfortable and inappropriate you teach them it is rude not to continue the conversation instead of telling the pedophile to F**k off?

Honestly, are you saying you would rather see an inappropriate adult having a conversation with your child and your child being uncomfortable than your child appearing ill mannered?

And you would punish your child if they didn’t continue with the conversation

@Yalta how on earth did you go from teaching manners to a child to not being aware of how to protect themselves if encountering an Paedophile?

My children know to repeat the inappropriate comment in a very loud clear voice to draw attention in such an incident. Language isn't relevant in that scenario - attention is the goal - It isn't difficult to comprehend that you can have manners while not making yourself vulnerable to predators.

You seem to be equating manners to not being assertive? I think this is where you may have a gap in understanding. My children and I are assertive, we can advocate and in a mannerly and appropriate fashion. Trust me they can advocate all too well!

Anyone who starts shouting abusive language has lost the argument in typical circumstances, because it simply says the person is emotionally charged and common sense/engagement cant take place until they have calmed down - encountering a predator is not a typical circumstance!

Marblessolveeverything · Today 12:24
@Yalta how on earth did you go from teaching manners to a child to not being aware of how to protect themselves if encountering an Paedophile?

So its unacceptable to tell someone who wants to take advantage of you to Go To Hell or to F**k off because it is abusive but to just accept the situation as it would be rude to cut them off

Maybe we should think about what we are teaching our children to accept

No one is saying accept anything read what I said again.

Update: DS spontaneously said “more please” this morning, so he may stay out of borstal yet.

He had a big language explosion 3-4 weeks ago and is now able to put two words together.