DH wants to Move us all to NZ…

[Notnowbarnaby]

… because he’s had a job offer and he’s increasingly concerned about the threat of war. (We are in the UK).
we have one DS who is just about to start school in September and is currently getting settled into the idea/going to taster sessions.
im not currently working. I was self employed previously. I’ve had a look online and it seems like DH would get the visa for the job offer and we could apply for a NZ Family Visa and try to get residency there once there, but I’m unclear about whether I’d need to work in order to hold that Visa - I’m not against working at all and we agreed I’d pick up my self employed business again when DS goes to school but I don’t think that would be an option under the working requirements there.
DH keeps saying the company would sort it all but I think it’s such a sudden huge decision and I’m worried that he’s just forging ahead with it because of his anxiety about the world situation.
weve never even been to NZ. We don’t know anyone out there, I don’t know anything about it or the schooling system etc.
it’s so far away as well we wouldn’t be able to see friends and family regularly. I’m worried about how DS would adapt.
im not enthusiastic as you can tell but DH thinks it’s a smart move
AIBU to want to dig my feet in about this and say no?!

NZ has a fascinating history. i used to work as a field archaeologist, and find it simply amazing. Educate yourself before making such inane comments.

The Maori arrived (from Taiwan, according to DNA) in about the mid 13th century. So their history in NZ is not particularly lengthy either, and their built environmental legacy is fairly thin. I always wondered what the black fly ate before humankind arrived there.

And I take exception to your not-so-thinly veiled accusations of racism. Celts, Phoenicians, Romans, Nordic tribes and Norman invasions happened in the UK and across Europe, Byzantium and Asia... that's the deep broad span of history and science and literature I was referring to.

The voyaging of the Polynesians across the entire Pacific is one of the marvels of human achievement. The Maori did not simply rock up from Taiwan one fine day in the 13th century. Thousands of years of wisdom and knowledge went in to their movement to every habitable piece of land across the vastness of ocean. They have a fine tradition of art, oratory, epic. They made and used pottery until they no longer needed it, and even had writing on Rapa Nui. They have been called "the Vikings of the sunrise"...however, their voyaging was so infinitely more skilled and their voyages so much longer, that they're actually incomparable. It irritates the hell out of me when people display ignorance of their culture and history.

This is amazing stuff, hats off to you

Cook went further than Kupe too, when it comes to that.

I have immense respect for the seamanship and navigational skills of the Pacific and Polynesian tribes @pollyglot and the cultural legacy and art are interesting but my knowledge is limited to what I gleaned during two or three trips to Te Papa when my DC was 8.

I’m sure they could find someone to dig you a four hole privy ?

As others have pointed out this is does not matter. As I said in my earlier post, it the children's habitual residency that is crucial.

I know mums stuck here with British American, Aussie, Canadian ex's.

Honestly, if everyone knew the details of the cases I now know about, few would move abroad wth kids or have kids abroad if they didn't intend to remain in that country.

For example. Couple with kids live in country X but mum and dad are from country Y and Z. Dad moves to country A. Mum cannot leave country X to return home because that is where the kids are habitually resident...
Dad doesn't even live there any more but is a controlling mother f**ker and the Hague Convention allows this.

I was really happy to see my 2020 post referenced on here - people need to know this shit.

@Witchesandwizards and your warning is far far more important and valuable than my casual observation that I am more interested in history than geography. Eye rolling.

@Witchesandwizards I always mention to people the facts when people suggest these things- because no one thinks they will split up when they go to these places but a large percentage do - partly because being away from family and friends and job situations can cause extra stresses too . If you are somewhere like Spain or Sweden etc whilst it's rubbish it can often be worked out- I know someone doing this with wife in Spain with kids - guy in UK - but it's not the same when 'home' is across the other side of the world -

Interesting..

@TomPinch It's lazy, no mention of the problem of taking children out of the country and the swimsuit picture just confirms the mysogynistic attitude. Women in NZ are indoctrinated to accept low standards.

Oh don't be so bloody ridiculous. The problem of taking children out of the country is the same in many countries of the world, hardly unique to NZ. Women in NZ are not the delicate flowers they are in the UK, and we don't take everything so seriously (re the swimsuit picture). Lighten up - women in NZ overall appear to be more chilled out than women in the UK.

You all do realise that that Hague Convention isn't just enforced in NZ? Why don't all of you with your pitchforks warn women moving to the UK that they might be stuck there?

😂

Exactly this.

That august British publication, the Daily Mail would never publish any photos like that.

And how atrocious that any child should have to live in New Zealand where even things like Lakeland and Marks and Spencer are unknown. 😉

If a woman from NZ or any other country came on Mumsnet and asked for advice about moving to the UK I would absolutely tell her that. If you could link to any such threads, I’ll go there now and do so.

It’s not that NZ is uniquely awful to be stuck in - from my point of view if I had to be trapped in a country other than my own it would be top of the list - it’s that a woman travelling outside the UK with her British husband might not realise (as at least one woman posting on this thread who is stuck in Australia did not realise) that the husband can prevent her returning home with her children.

The same would definitely go for a non-UK woman thinking of moving to the UK with a non-UK husband (or a British husband for that matter).

Pitchforks?
That's a little harsh. If you knew some of the stories I know....
Of course it's other countries - through the charity that I am a member of (Globalarrk) I know many women stick in many countries. What was suprising is that the worst counties to be stuck stuck in, are the ones that have the best 'PR'. My top five worse countries to be stuck in are, in no particular order, Sweden, Netherlands, Italy, New Zealand, Australia.
And by worse, I'm talking about family court, financial matters, support, being allowed to travel home for visits, medical issues.

I warn all women with children or of childbearing age to think twice about moving abroad.

Every word of this!

I know two women who had to return to the UK without their children when their marriages broke down after moving abroad. Both of the families moved to places that are considered very ‘safe’ with strong rights for women. Nobody ever wants to believe that their DH could become controlling, violent or weaponise their children, but it happens. @Notnowbarnaby would be taking a huge risk to move to NZ, because she already knows that her DH’s mental health is fragile.

@ForGreyKoala @TomPinch You've become so used to blatant mysogyny you no longer see it and instead are handmaidens. There are other threads on mumsnet where people are warned about the dangers of moving to other countries. I dont remember the residents being quite as touchy as New Zealanders, most can accept their countries are not perfect.

It's definitely a good idea if moving to another country to do some research, such as whether the country is a signatory to the Hague Convention, what this means, that sort of thing, if you have children.

Gosh this thread is like reading a medieval picture book of far off lands. So much lurid description and superstition: “ There be dragons there.”

I’ve been several times to most of the countries mentioned above as “ worst places to live”: Sweden, NZ, Australia. Australia I can concede is very different in the central outback areas. But in the main cities they are wonderful, civilised countries to live in- and I would say some of the best in the world on the markers I use to evaluate quality of life: parks, general cleanliness, clean beaches, quality of food, education, cleanliness of hospitals ( was in a uk hospital the other day and there was literally piled, ground-in dirt in those folded linoleum corners they do on those linoleum hospital skirtings), leafy suburbs, spaciousness of housing with outdoor space, wonderful clean beaches, vibrant cafe and restaurant culture.

This thread is like reading a myopic xenophobic account of “ foreign lands” from the dark ages. I’m embarrassed by the Little Englandness of it .

No one is saying they are ‘the worst places to live’, they are saying they are the places with the strictest rules for removing resident children.

If you find all the advantages of those countries worth the risk of losing custody of your children and possibly being forced to leave the country without them, go ahead and move there. Many women don’t see it that way. If you would rather prioritise ‘leafy suburbs etc’ over seeing your children regularly, that’s your choice but you don’t get to tell other women to do the same.

Edited to say: And I’d give exactly the same advice to a non-UK woman considering moving herself and her children to the UK so it’s hardly a ‘little Englander’ attitude (but nice use of an accusation of racism to shut down debate rather than actually addressing the issue raised).

Why did you automatically assume my post was directed at you?

It was a more general observation about the thread generally ( comments like no heating); although at a specific level @Witchesandwizards ( not you) did in fact say they are among their “ top five worst” places to live.

And you are right, “no one gets to tell other women” what to do. But no one was-least of all me. I simply gave my impressions.

Another take on this whole Hague Convention business is that what it also protects against is your DH going feral and HIM deciding he wants to uplift your children from the country while you want to stay. That’s really the scenario those rules are designed to protect against so I guess it can cut both ways.

I didn’t assume the post was directed at me specifically? What an odd thing to say.

I was continuing to comment on a long running thread just like many other people.

Also, just to note, @Witchesandwizards said they were the worst places to live in relation to child custody issues not in general - hardly the same thing. Nice use of a straw man argument, though.

What Witchesandwizards actually said was that it's often the nicest places (such as Sweden) where child custody issues cause the most problems.

Total comprehension fail.