DH wants to Move us all to NZ…

[Notnowbarnaby]

… because he’s had a job offer and he’s increasingly concerned about the threat of war. (We are in the UK).
we have one DS who is just about to start school in September and is currently getting settled into the idea/going to taster sessions.
im not currently working. I was self employed previously. I’ve had a look online and it seems like DH would get the visa for the job offer and we could apply for a NZ Family Visa and try to get residency there once there, but I’m unclear about whether I’d need to work in order to hold that Visa - I’m not against working at all and we agreed I’d pick up my self employed business again when DS goes to school but I don’t think that would be an option under the working requirements there.
DH keeps saying the company would sort it all but I think it’s such a sudden huge decision and I’m worried that he’s just forging ahead with it because of his anxiety about the world situation.
weve never even been to NZ. We don’t know anyone out there, I don’t know anything about it or the schooling system etc.
it’s so far away as well we wouldn’t be able to see friends and family regularly. I’m worried about how DS would adapt.
im not enthusiastic as you can tell but DH thinks it’s a smart move
AIBU to want to dig my feet in about this and say no?!

True but it was set up for people living in those countries to chat amongst themselves about local issues. Not as a free travel/immigration advisory service for the rest of Mumsnet.

I arrived in NZ on holiday pregnant during covid and couldn't leave due to lockdown. After 2 years and vaccination complete, we were supposed to go back but ex husband refused and now me and my child are trapped in NZ against our will until he is 16. If I attempt to leave with my child I will be charged with kidnapping. DO NOT MOVE TO NZ WITH KIDS.

Clearly, there will be threads there on day to day life that will be relevant to the OP given its actually people living there now, at least from what I saw. There was one from an individual who'd moved there recently from the UK etc.

What I'd Mumsnet apart from a place where you can get free advice?! Lol.

So..... I am the mum who other people have mentioned who moved to NZ at the end of 2019 and when we separated 4 months later found myself stuck here, unable to return to London with my kids.

The principle that most people ('old' me included) don't understand, is that of habitual residency. Quite simply, once you move as a family to a new country, your children become habitual residents of that country and they cannot be removed without the agreement of both parents. Of course, this is worst case scenario, and no one wants to predict this for their relationship, but an international move that you are not certain about will put enormous strain on your marriage.

I have not been on here for a number of years and I'm scared to look at my original post right now because I used it as journalling through lockdown and my darkest days.

I remember you ❤️ I hope things got a little better for you and the situation improved.

A neighbour is in a similar situation and he thought he would rent for just a year and then buy something. Still here renting 5 years later and has their son more often than not.

my understanding from his perspective they came to NZ for the birth. Being a good Parent he wants to remain in his child’s life. But it’s not where the relationship was originally based.

oh for goodness sakes! What a load of tommy rot!! LOL you guys who are saying such rot about NZ!!! I don't know whether to laugh at the stupidity or be angry at such silly lies! We have earthquakes... the last real violent one was over 5 yrs ago. Won't get out of bed for less then a 5.0 .. otherwise mostly it's just a rock and roll gentle shake or bang like a car crash down the road. As for volcanoes... what the??? We have mainly extinct volcanoes here. The only ones i know that are active are in the centre of north island besides White Island which is in the ocean just off Tauranga. Taupo got a little ash over it some years ago from Ruapehu when it blew it's top but really???? How many volcanoes have I ever seen blow up in NZ? One.. and I'm over 50yrs!! Get a grip you folks. As to your sister being scared = fear mongering brits might be terrified but genuine folk know it's not that common.

It’s only tourists anyway who go near the volcanoes. It’s not like Vesuvius right near Napoli/ Pompeii.

OP I think a visit would be a good idea. I think a lot of nonsense is being spoken on this thread by people who have never visited/ visited a loooong time ago ( and are embellishing!) or were living on the lower end of the offerings, which, let’s face it, is lifestyle impacting absolutely anywhere.

I have several friends there and they honestly have such beautiful homes and gardens (even with heating! 😀). They are not hugely wealthy but affluent and the lifestyle in that bracket allows people far more than is typical in the uk (two have tennis courts, infinity pools etc) . The difference for my friend who moved there is the private healthcare and private schooling is much more affordable. It sounds as though your DH has a good offer. You can’t expect to go on a shoestring and live like a king, which is what I get the feeling many posters were disappointed by. It really would be pretty basic rental housing stock that didn’t have heating. And as for making their own furniture … well I suppose that is true in the sense that my friend had some extremely stylish nz made furniture that was indistinguishable to me from the expensive Italian imported ( she’s a minimalist!) pieces she had. They don’t have John Lewis (!) but they do actually have their own manufacturers as well as imports and the quality is equal or better. I didn’t see anything like Argos there.

Thd one thing that is true is that it is a long way- but I’m sure some family will want to visit you to help with the back and forth. And it’s 24 hours far away, not weeks.

Hello!
I have reached a place where I survive, but it's still not great and I have spent the last four years fighting ex over everything - finances, travel, care schedules. He has to win every battle and has continued to be spiteful.
Thanks for asking x

I think I may have read your story or a similar one just after or before I decided to stay in the uk when I was in a similar position . He went anyway ! I am glad to hear you’re doing ok ❤️

Well survival is a good start! And I’m glad to hear that. But onwards and upwards and I’m sure something even more bearable awaits. X

Five years in, here are my takeouts that are things outside my personal situation that would put me off Auckland vs London. From a UK expat POV, not slagging off NZ for the sake of it!

The cost of living is higher. I can't survive without a car. Home and contents insurance is $2500 compared to a similar size/value house in London that was 400GBP. Food is very expensive. Rents, mortgages comparable but everything else is difficult.

Not as many job opportunities and lower wages. There will always be exceptions but this is the norm. There is no nil rate tax band which hits hard now I'm on a low salary.

The education system is not as academic which is a problem if you are planning on returning to the UK with teens who simply could not slot back into GCSEs or A levels. There are options to study the Cambridge curriculum but these are private schools who are massively oversubscribed.

I cannot sign my daughter up with a local GP and at 14 I have to pay for her GP care. I cannot afford insurance and cannot get public health care for a knee problem.

Annual leave sucks. A lot of companies have a mandatory shut down at Christmas. My company closes for 3 weeks and I must take 3 of my 4 weeks then. It makes travel home difficult if you want to go in the UK summer.

Another UK expat problem is that no one with school age kids will visit you (unless they get longer private school holidays). I hadn't really thought about this because of course everyone said they would visit when we left, but when would they come? No point coming in NZ winter when they get their long school holidays and two weeks at Christmas is not enough.

Flight prices have not really improved since covid with decent routes costing around $4000 per flight during school holidays.

There is more rain than London. This was a facetious point until 2023 when Auckland was flooded and 50% of my house was destroyed causing $100k of damage that took over a year to repair.

Winter is grim without Christmas and going out culture.

I obviously have more emotive reasons, but feel these are fair and representative (of London vs Auckland).

NZers don't really worry about these things, but there is the risk that Rangitoto will go off at some stage. Presumably with plenty of warning. I've experienced two earthquakes in my life, one a good shake, and it wasn't in NZ. These things are not reasons to not move to NZ.

@Witchesandwizards - I remember your threads and like many have often wondered how you are doing. I am sorry your ex is still so awful.

That sounds fair to me, based on my experience. I'm sorry you're stuck there. Not because NZ, but because not having the choice over the matter is hard.

25% chance of a catastrophic earthquake in the next 50 years is pretty high.

You should have seen my daughters's face when she found out that Rangi is not extinct. She's at Rangitoto College. Beautiful views 😂

He can go to NZ, but he cannot force you or your children to go

I have been to NZ on holiday, it is expensive & a very long way

I have travelled between UK & NZ countless times and I can tell you it is not 24 hours. Its around 24 hours flight time (minimum) but you always have to transit somewhere and best case scenario is 2 hours - so its very minumum 26 hours, usually a bit more. Transiting via USA requires and ESTA visa and hours on hell in US custoime - best avoided at all costs. Travel via Asia is very busy/expensive around Chinese NY & Easter.

Flying as one person is one thing. The cost and logistics of flying such a distance as a family are another. My kids enjoy flying thankfully are were never a problem on flights. But add in having to travel in school holidays when prices are higher and you are looking at huge cost and over a day travel each way - don't forget to factor in travel to/from an international airport at both ends.

Living in Auckland when I was younger I shared a house with a women from Edmonton, Alberta - a place where minus 40 degrees C is not ususal in the winter. She had never been so cold as she was living in Auckland, which is a warmer part of NZ.

I only know one family with central heating in NZ - they lived in UK and installed central heating in their home when they moved back. They are very unusal & their energy bills are astronomical. Most families heat one room with a heater or fire and the rest of the house is freezing.

I personally don't think Rangitoto is in any danger of erupting, but earthquakes anywhere are a risk.

the worst thing about NZ is how far away it is. This is also the best thing about NZ.

NZ is very beautiful, hugely neo-liberal capitalist politically, over the last few years they have sought to destroy any "green" credentials they might have had, you absolutely must drive, and you will need to drive everywhere. Crime is very high as is male violence & gang violence. My Mum recently had her car stolen and used in a smash & grab - this is extremly common. Men I know in their 50's who have grown up in Auckland now feel large parts of Auckland are 100% no go areas for men, including central Auckland. On the other hand if you enjoy remote living with very few people around and can find a lovely isolated community you'll probably enjoy it.

Films to watch:
Top of the Lake (on Netflix), Once Were Warriors, Hunt for the Wilderpeople

In regard to timing, I completely agree. I visit family in NZ regularly. I leave my house at 10.00 in the morning and after three flights (one NZ domestic), arrive at their house in rural NZ at around 9.00 / 10.00 two days later.

Bearing in mind the time difference, that’s around 35 to 36 hours total. It’s then day for night time difference and I spend the first couple of weeks of the holiday falling asleep in the early evening - not brilliant for socialising.

It’s a beautiful country and I love visiting but I don’t want to live there and over the years I’ve spent at least a year of my life there and I have a built in social life when I am there with friends of my family members.

Hiya,
As someone who lives in New Zealand, on a good wage and still struggling I'd really be discussing with DH about going for a holiday first to make sure you guys like it. We may have free healthcare but we're also so short of GPs/Nurses that its almost impossible to get a Drs appt unless you don't mind waiting a few months. I rung this morning to get my son into the Dr and the earliest appt I can get is August.

Cost of living is insane, if your wanting to rent prepare to put aside a fair whack of money each week even if your not living in the city. I live in a small rural town and still pay $600 a week, the cheapest rent I've seen in my town is about $580.

Groceries are expensive, I've never been to the UK so can't compare but a couple of my friends who have come back from there said we're significantly more expensive so there's that.

Also our public transport is honestly shocking you'll definitely need a car to run around in.

New Zealand is a great country if you can budget well and on a good wage but honestly it's hard. I'm hoping to pack up at the end of this year/beginning of next and move to Australia.

Best of luck for whatever happens!

The whole family are British citizen so that's not an issue More likely happens if one parent has nationality of country they are living in

Well that's no different from the UK then

As for wanting healthy kids- they have probably seen how much UK pays out in healthcare costs and benefits for a hugely increased number if kids with issues and think -err no thanks.

I've been to new Zealand many times and can get a NZ passport if I choose as my dad had one ( he's the son of a NZ dad ( half moari)and British mum) but I wouldn't want to live there mainly due to extreme weather on south island and living costs

While they are all British, if the husband doesn’t want to leave NZ, he can prevent the children leaving. The test is where a child is ‘habitually resident’ not citizenship.

Therefore saying ‘this is not an issue’ is legally wrong and very misleading. The husband could absolutely make it an issue if he wanted.

No it can still happen if the whole family are British citizens. All it takes is for one parent to want to go home and the other one doesn't. If the child is habitually resident- meaning has legally lived there for some time, then the parent who wants to leave cannot take the child with them if the other parent objects.