To feel uncomfortable in working class pubs as a woman of colour?

[Dreamsaregood]

Just that really. I walked in and immediately got heckled by a (presumably) drunk man. Why did this man think this is ok?

I felt really uncomfortable after that and he continued to stare at me every time I walked past. It ruined my evening, and to be honest I felt a little threatened being the only woman of colour in my group.

AIBU to think very carefully before agreeing to meet up in certain places (local pubs etc)?

Nobody is dismissing how this made this lady feel but neither you, or i can say it was because she was a woman or because of her colour

Well, isn't it good that nobody is asking you or anyone else to say that. Thankfully op is more than capable of saying it for herself, and she has done, right there in the first post.

"If you are oblivious to prejudice and microaggressions, as my friends are, you will continue to remain oblivious as the status quo suits you/ the majority so why change it to make life better for "others""

hmm @Dreamsaregood. I can't help wondering why these people are your friends if you think so little of them? Why not try? The worse that happens is they confirm what you already think. People are sometimes oblivious to situations that they have not themselves experienced, that does not mean to say they would remain so if they became aware of it. Yes, in an ideal world you should not HAVE to be in a situation where you need to explain it, however this has never been an ideal world and these people are your friends.

So if we all know it’s so bad how come the mods don’t? This is what baffles me.

I’ve never posted on a large site with such bad racism.

Virtually all areas have “working class pubs”. Islington did when I lived there until recently and so does the naice Home Counties area I live in now. Usually flat roofed for a stater.

YABU racism exists everywhere. I grew up in a working class area where POC far outnumbered white people, the amount of abuse I suffered because I was white by certain groups was disgusting. I put this down to specific groups of men rather than an entire race or social group. Pubs were full of all sorts of races. I’ve worked in both working class and “middle class” pubs, I find racism and misogyny far worse in middle class areas.

I find it very insulting to say this kind of racism only exists in working class areas.

Either they don't care... racism runs deep and all that. Or they like the engagement it brings. The hate black mumsnetters have faced and continue to, especially when the black mumsnetters section was created was horrific. A poster was dox'd. They must gain something from it. Or just dont give a shit.

Edited because I am on daft mode today.

@Kendodd Exactly! I went to university with men like Johnson and Farage, and have never understood the white working class admiration for a type of person who utterly despises them, to the point of barely thinking them human.

@AliceMcK The OP isn’t saying every poor person is racist, she’s saying there’s certain venues where that racism is allowed and accepted. All you’ve done is make yourself look like a tit by attempting to chastise the OP, well done.

We are all very close friends but I will be honest and say I feel very apprehensive about how this will go down - either way i will raise as I will never go somewhere like thjs ever again. I knew when I pulled up what I would be facing but hoped I would be allowed to just get on with my day, isn't that what all of us want?

I feel really quite emotional and upset about this and find myself wondering whether to distance myself from this group of friends. My experience and life is so very different from theirs but we have all this shared history and I love them all, even though I am very angry about what happened and their lack of awareness around issues like this.

HelloOhHell
“all women-ing” OP when she clearly said what she said is diabolical
diabolical is a bit strong isn’t it? Commenters were just showing solidarity with op

I'd say it would be a double whammy. The act of women going to pubs alone, coupled with lack of local poc. Drunk old school bigoted white working class men. Yeah, I can see that happening in certain places.

I've experienced a lot of that as I used to stop off in pubs to do my admin when visiting some really deprived areas for work. I'm white, so I'd imagine it could be worse for poc. A lot of the punters seemed like they were far right, and very unfriendly seeming.

But surely there must be nicer, more welcoming pubs in the locale. Some really are just cliquey and rough as toast. But others are cool, friendly, fun etc. don't let it put you off going to pubs in general.

Write a bad TripAdvisor about that one though, they sound rubbish.

Can you not see your own prejudices in this way of thinking though?

Intersectionality… a lot of you need to go and pick up a book, you’re embarrassing yourselves.

Oh bless you @Dreamsaregood it can't be easy. They may surprise you and they are obviously a good group of friends who I suspect love you to bits too and will feel awful they have been so blind. We are human, all fallible, and we shouldn't ever stop trying to be better. I wish you all the best.

I’ve had this too.

Walked into a pub in a predominantly white area. Silence. Even the white guy i was with noticed. Lots of staring.

To some extent it’s better than it was but at least racists made themselves known in the past. Now I sort of get reminded. It’s more obtuse but it’s there. You just know.

yes- solidarity in minimising what OP said. diabolical wasn’t even strong enough- look at how the well meaning allies continue to “all women” all over this post.

The problem is human nature @HelloOhHell - it is an innate trait in us to identify with something someone else has experienced. It is a survival trait, to not be seen as an outsider, and proffering similar experiences can make you seem more appealing and likeable to others, ironically enough! Unfortunately you cannot as a white woman, ever identify with an experience of a WoC as you have no basis for comparison, but it doesn't stop the compulsion. People need to recognise in themselves the impulse they immediately felt (I won't lie, I felt it too, immediately thinking of times when I've felt othered or an outsider, but it isn't relevant here!) and listen and learn. That's all we can ask for really!

Oh edited because of stupid lazy fat fingers and an inability to type today!

She has clearly stated “working class”. And who said every working class person is poor??? Maybe you should look in the mirror if you want to know what a tit looks like 🙄

It’s fine to find something relatable.

It’s not ok to minimise op experience. She knows it was as a result of her race.

I'm hoping that was where my post was going...! But then its been a long day and my brains are currently resembling scrambled eggs.

Why should you be piled on? What you say makes perfect sense to me. The film A Patch Of Blue, is exactly about what you are trying to convey here.

I hear you OP. As a black woman I know about the wounding actions from people, who would never mention the colour of my skin, as a reason for their mistreatment of me. The term Misogynoir is what you experienced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogynoir

@AliceMcK she clearly stated “working class pub” and talked about her experience within that pub and whether she’d be unreasonable to avoid other working class pubs. The fact you’re working so hard to keep up the faux naivety is gross.

I am sure there is lots of racism in middle class pubs too. Although I think this is usually indirect/under the surface rather than direct stares/going out of their way to make you feel uncomfortable. I have been to lots of "country pubs/middle class pubs" and have never experienced direct racism so this is my experience of them. I am aware I could have just been lucky to date!

It is not comparable to the threat of someone in this working mans pub who could easily have thrown a pint at me or worse because he took exception to the way I looked. I grew up somewhere very derived and working class, I would say nearly all the pubs in the area have this threat. I would not visit but for my friends who I enjoy catching up with. It almost feels like seeing them in that venue was an act of self harm. Why did I do it to myself?

This country may be becoming more diverse by the day but racism is rife and thriving.

Thank you for being kind, this made me cry. This experience has bought all sorts of emotions to the surface for me.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share experiences and the supportive comment, I have read them all and it makes me feel less alone.