Choose a side: Vinted v disabled users

[Supersimkin2]

Please say what you think. Vinted asked NDN to verify her ID, which she’s happy to do, or they won’t let her withdraw the £300 she’s made selling her stuff.

Life on disability benefits not so easy right now. Her £300 a big deal.

But she can’t do the checks - cos the only ID Vinted accepts is a passport or driver’s licence, neither of which she has as she can’t travel. All the other ID proofs - she has loads - Vinted won’t accept.

We’ve appealed to Vinted three times and they won’t budge. Mangopay, their money platform, refer us to
Vinted.

So Vinted are keeping NDN’s money. They say ‘We hope you will understand’.

YABU = I’m with Vinted.
YANBU = Shame on Vinted.

I'm failing to see the discrimination, tbh. She CAN apply for the passport. She is fully ABLE TO. She just DOESN'T WANT TO. As someone said upthread being poor is not a protected characteristic. Just as equally an able bodied, fully healthy single mother with a few kids and on minimum wage who never travels anywhere couldn't afford the passport. And would be asked by Vinted to provide it just the same. Or a 'single parent' is also a protected characteristic now?

Not the point, but I first heard about passport-less adults upon coming to the UK. I was gobsmacked, tbh, never even knew such a phenomenon existed. I'm from an economically disadvantaged EU country and absolutely everyone from 16 years old onward, disabled or dying, has to have a passport. No exceptions, no discounts. It's the law. You will need it everywhere and will be asked to provide it. No faffing with birth cert and various docs, it's the passport or nothing. You won't be able to access medical care, open a bank acc, rent/buy your place, get a job, register for voting, register your child to daycare/school, deal with the utilities companies, etc etc etc without a passport. Children younger than 16 need passport only when traveling.

It costs 50eu if you're willing to wait a month and a 100eu/5 days. Minimum wage is lower than the UK by a lot and there are no benefits/dole. Instead of faffing, arguing the toss, creating problems where there are none, seeing discrimination around every corner...people just go and get the passport made. Seems pretty simple to me. Never even occurred to me that getting a passport is SUCH a massive trouble..

You’ve quoted only part of what I wrote in my post. The bit you’ve missed out, the relevant part, is where I’ve copied the text from the online application page, and the need for a passport is quite clearly listed there.

But you knew that, didn’t you?

The UK needs a national ID card system. Most European countries have such a system now (not something you have to carry about all day, just something to keep in a drawer at home until you need it) and it works fine.

The bit you copied and pasted doesn't say "this is what you need to apply online but you can apply without a passport via a paper form" It

So your post implies that you have to have a passport.

I’m on disability too and quite honestly was fed up of banks etc needing photo ID I had to suck up paying for a passport even though I’ll never go away on holiday. It’s disgraceful but blame the scammers that make it so normal people won’t be trusted either. Your NDN will need photo ID at some point anyway as more and more places only accept passport/ driving licenses as ID. A lot of places insist on it even for piercings or tattoos! I also couldn’t get away with a provisional driving licence to save money due to my disability. Hope it gets sorted but I don’t think there’s any other option but to spend the £100 or loose the £300.

The Uk used to have a “citizens card” but a lot of places wouldn’t accept it even though it had a photo on. I had one and it was useless and I still had to get a passport

Most jobs require Photo ID even out of date. I qorked in the NHS for years and you needed 1 photo ID. passport / driving license. Even out of date. So not Vinted ate not being unfair. If it is in T&C then she had time to read and be made aware.

Won’t work, Vinted are big enough not to care. I have a blue badge and even though it has (a rather awful) photo of me on the reverse it is not an acceptable form of ID. Unfortunately these days most people will eventually need some form of photo identification

Anyone with enough spending money hanging around.

OP what about using the small claims court?

I lived in Scandinavia and it was very similar to what you describe. Only the price was lower, if I remember correctly, but you needed the national ID card for pretty much everything, including receiving a parcel sent to you.
A PP mentioned the reluctance of many Brits to accept a national ID card system, which has been proposed under different governments.
But then, that’s not Vinted’s fault really. I can’t imagine a company based in a different country having to figure out if copies of local bank statements/ utility bills are sufficiently reliable documents to prove someone’s identity.

Yes, I’ve heard about it. It seems a bit odd to me, I’ve previously lived in Europe and having a national ID card wasn’t seen as an issue at all.
So I personally wouldn’t blame the government for that (even though passports could probably be cheaper), but I wouldn’t blame Vinted (or Mangopay) either.
They are companies based in a different country, it makes sense that to comply with money laundering regulations they might require a more forgery proof and internationally recognised ID than a local UK bank.

But the fact that she HAS to pay for a passport when she can’t travel, puts her at a disadvantage to non disabled people.
That’s discriminatory

Me too! Especially for a site that’s so hot on disability rights !
It’s blatantly discriminatory!! I’m also not sure why people think it’s reasonable she should be out of pocket and pay to get a passport purely to be able to withdraw her own money.

I’ve got health problems, and will never travel abroad. But, I keep my passport renewed. ID is needed for all sorts of things, and I don’t drive.

It’s a nuisance, but necessary.🤷‍♀️

Because she is disabled doesn’t make it discrimination. Lots of disabled people have passports / lots of abled bodied people don’t.

Requiring an official photo id to be able to conduct financial transaction is not unreasonable. If you want to fight, fight against the UK gov for not offering id cards.

I personally think that framing it as discrimination and a title such as « vinted vs disabled users » is disrespecting people actually facing discrimination.

I’ve never been asked for ID but I always withdraw small amounts. It’s their T&Cs which the seller would have agreed to when they signed up.

I personally think that framing it as discrimination and a title such as « vinted vs disabled users » is disrespecting people actually facing discrimination

This!

It's not discrimination in the least, the rules are the same for everyone and framing it as a company oppressing a minority is wrong and misleading, in this instance, the person using Vinted doesn't have a passport, their disability status/their income is irrelevant and Vinted has not changed the rules solely to exclude them, which if they had WOULD be discrimination.

You got the bit where the OP said that the neighbour, the disabled neighbour who can't travel, doesn't have the types of identification, the only types of id that Vinted will accept, right?

Because this way she still ends up with an extra £200, and a useful document. If she wants to take the bank to court, good luck to her, but most of us wouldn't have the knowledge or time for that

Vinted have asked for the passport again. Persistence is a virtue.

Yes, she did.

It's in their T&Cs. To 'sign up' you have to accept the T&Cs.

As others have said, it's got nothing to do with her disability. I agree that making a passport or driving licence the only acceptable forms of ID (for anything) is crap because lots of people don't have them and there's a cost associated with them but that has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone's disabled or not.

I don't think it's unreasonable that Vinted need photo ID as will be down to financial regulations. However it really it should be part of the account set up before you can list to sell, so you're definitely aware you won't get payment without it. It's easy to say well should've read the T's & C's but that can also be difficult for some due to learning difficulties or disability.

Some people have suggested possible work arounds so I hope your friend is able to access the money a different way.

I do agree it is discriminatory that the government doesn't recognise that your options for photo ID in UK are limited with some disabilities to the much more expensive passport (£88.50-100) where the able bodied can apply for the more affordable provisional driving licence (£34). It's not like either are one off costs as need renewing (£88.50+ V £14).

Is there a fee in those countries with national ID cards or is it free (paid by taxes) because it's mandatory? I can imagine would cost a government a fair bit to implement & run.

Ffs read the thread. It has been explained over and over why this is discrimination. It's shocking how many people just don't have a basic grasp of this. As the parent of a disabled child, it is also hugely depressing that you are the people he will have to deal with.
Mumsnet is so frustrating in that half the posters just read the OP and then bang on spreading misinformation that has been corrected many times over the thread. You aren't posting to learn, you are just interested in hearing your own voice.

Is there a fee in those countries with national ID cards or is it free (paid by taxes) because it's mandatory? I can imagine would cost a government a fair bit to implement & run

In the 2 euro country I am a citizen of, yes there is a fee for the id card. A bit cheaper than passport though.
And you have to renew it every 10y or so, same as the passport. To note that the id card is not mandatory, what is mandatory is to have either passport or id card.

Mangopay (who run the e-wallet Vinted uses, which is not technically a bank) operate in 170 countries, they are not going to be interested in making an exception for the UK, if they meet the FCA regulations already, which they appear to do.

It is ridiculous that we have this confusion over ID in the UK, in most other countries having national ID is compulsory, nothing can be done without it (so irrespective of need to travel), but it also costs money, an admin fee at least. In my husband's EU country you are fined if you don't have it when requested for it by authorities or apply with it after 16. There's no option called have no ID, this is something UK people seem to struggle with and I'm not sure why.

If you think of the passport as a national ID document, then getting one, paying the fee and using it throughout your life to access all kinds of things will be so much easier.

If you rely on using your birth certificate, combination of letters, and so on, it's always going to be more painful for you to access things.

I don't think this would meet the definition of discriminatory because being poor isn't a basis for discrimination, although you could try arguing that inability to drive (disability) leaves you open only to the one type of ID.

Ultimately you have to say- how much time and energy do I want to spend fighting with Vinted/Mangopay and how much do I just want to get the money out of the system, and then do that as suggested by lots of people on the thread. In future, take the money out in small bursts, it is only because it's been left that it's triggered another layer of security, usually no ID is required to take out Vinted money into your bank account.