Severe lies between our children and friends children HELP

[New15]

Long one so will try and compress down!

I have 14 (Boy) and 10 (Girl)
Lifelong friends have 2 kids 14 (girl) and 13 (boy)

these people we see every weekend, we holiday together have been through good and bad together and are so important to us.

Background being both my friends kids have been caught out lying about Drinking, Vaping, talking to adults in a sexual nature over the internet sending explicit pictures to other people in the last 6 months or so.
My kids are the model of good behaviour, neither have ever done anything wrong (I’m so lucky) my boy 14 is massively into sport so his health is priority. We have different parenting styles, I am more of a gentle parent with the others being the opposite.
Both my kids are always honest and upfront and have never done anything to not have my trust.

my Daughter 10 last week said she had something to tell me and got really upset.
2 weeks ago, whilst round their house. My daughter (10) went in their sons room (13) for a few minutes a which is totally normal and had said he was having sexual conversations with other friends over PS5.
he had turned and said sorry did you know about that stuff?, to which she responded “yes, I did sex education at school last week”
He then proceeded to show her on his phone what I believe to be porn. He also asked her if she knew what it was. At 10 years old she was trying to describe what she saw, but struggled as she didn’t understand it, however I knew what she was talking about straight away. She felt uncomfortable and pretended to need a drink to which he said, if she was to tell me, he would say it was her and she would get into trouble.

Now she does have Tourette’s and struggles with decisions and some emotions massively which is why I assume it’s taken her a week to pluck the courage up to say something.

I rang my friend and explained what I had been told and that I was so shocked by it. The friend apologised to which I said it’s not your fault but please speak with him and let me know.

we knew he would lie because he lies about everything until it’s black and white in his face to which he couldn’t lie.

my friend rang me back the next day and said her son (13) has swore down he absolutely did not show her anything. There was nothing on his phone. That he had said, she had overheard him laughing in about sexual stuff with his friends which he apologised for but that was it.
I explained, that what my daughter told me, she couldn’t have known, and the way she explained it proved she didn’t know what it was, only she knew it wasn’t right.
My friend then proceeded to tell me my daughter probably knows much more than she lets on, and I should baby proof her phone! (Her phone has always been for school walking only) and she doesn’t have access to the internet at all.
So basically my friend has took her sons word and now it is incredibly awkward.

what do I do?
this is someone who is considered as family. We love each others kids like our own, and despite her kids going off the rails a little and lying Iv always loved them like they are my own.

I don’t know how to approach it at all!

My daughter had asked what was going on and I had to tell her that they believe he is telling the truth. To which she broke down in tears, and said she wish she never said anything. Which makes it worse I want her as a young girl to be able to tell me things that make her feel uncomfortable and to be heard. - And this isn’t a little white lie or swearing ect. This is a teenager lying about showing my 10 year old something extremely sexual.

this whole experience as a parent has me overwhelmed.

Thoughts from an outside viewer are greatly appreciated!

Also, how do you now feel about the boy?

My husband would want to throttle him and I would not be able to not say anything to him.

It's interesting that it's the two mothers communicating over this matter.

What doyour husband and the boys father have to say to each other?

But it's not an equal playing field, it's more likely the 10 year old girl is telling the truth

Abusers are almost always someone you know and think that you trust. This poor girl is so young she trusts her parents judgment over this family so she has been put into the position where things haven’t felt quite right and there has been a lot of inappropriate behaviour, but the contact has continued and the child has been exposed. I will hand on my heart tell you I have been this child and I trusted my parents and they were wrong so I do not feel bad giving it straight to the OP about what she needs to do moving forward to protect her daughter.

shes the adult, hard as it is to hear - the OP was talking about trying to salvage the friendship which is why I reacted strongly!

It is just not safe, and it could easily have got worse had it continued as the boy (and girl) has been exposed to far too much at a young age and the parents aren’t really addressing the deeper issues other than punishments. It’s good OP has enough alarm bells now going off and taken the advice on board

From the perspective of an objective observer , yes, but OP’s friend is not an objective observer, she’s the boys mum.

Obviously do not trust him at all.

it’s us communicating as the friendship for over 15 years stems from us.

the only conversation that was had was the the next day when she had said he is telling the truth and there’s nothing on his phone. To which it abruptly ended. And there’s been no communication since between any of us.

Your friend is sticking up for number 1 (her son). Not saying it's in any way right but sadly it's not surprising. She won't/can't admit or face that her son behaved like that.

You did right by your daughter and sadly the only option here is to end the friendship. Rather then facing up to what her son did and talk honestly to you and him about it, your friend chose to protect him and (subtly) project blame onto your child. That was the nail in the friendship coffin. How could anyone come back from that?

Please emphasise to your daughter that none of this is her fault, otherwise she WILL blame herself, and likely for many years. This sort of thing leaves a strong mark on a child, and you don't want her to keep things like this inside due to thinking it only ruins people's lives. Keep explaining to her that it's about protecting her and that sometimes people can't be who we want them to be, so we lose them as friends, but that is the way life sadly goes.

No. I don’t think we can excuse her. Wanting to believe your child is not the same as actually believing him. She know both her children are lying about a variety of things.

I think OP is really going to discover that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. The “friend” and her children both lie easily to avoid conflict and punishment.

Your friend knows her DS is lying but she’s protecting him

You’re steering clear not because she doesn’t believe you but because the kid is getting into these stuff too early so not safe for your kids

absolutely no friendship in this galaxy is worth this hassle!! (Not even a relationship, let alone a friend)

happened for a reason!

No I don’t agree. As a pp pointed out , there isn’t any evidence other than her word and his. Of course from the point of view of an objective observer it’s more likely he is lying. (It is also of course also possible that OP’s dd is lying- less likely - but possible). but this is her son, her baby. He swore he was telling the truth. She is his mum. It’s not reasonable to expect her to choose her friends’ kid over her own son, and convict him of this, in the absence of any further evidence. We trust and defend our children, this is what parents do. It is what OP is (rightly) doing and it is also what her friend is doing.

I bet she knows there's a good chance her son is lying. She knows they've previously been caught out lying about drinking, vaping, talking to adults in a sexual nature over the internet (who may not know they are talking to kids), sending explicit pictures to other people.

Of course her son is going to deny showing porn to your dd. Your dd doesn't have form for lying and as you said she was describing things she doesn't know about. Her son has far more of a motive for lying. The next time he lies about something she'll probably think back to him saying your dd made it up and cringe. Time to take a break from them. They sound like a dysfunctional family with issues.

I actually think that is quite an immoral point of view. And I think it will lead poor friend’s family into an increasingly toxic dead end in which the children continue to lie to their parents with impunity and the parents turn a blind eye and lose any opportunity to offer care and correction to their children. The more the children know their parents will pretend ignorance of wrong the more co tempt the children will have, and rightly, for their parents wisdom and trustworthiness..

You have to protect your child. A really good family friend's child asked our DS to take inappropriate pictures of his sister (our DD) and show them to him. In our case it had to be reported and fortunately necessary agencies have dealt with it. We cut all ties with the child and haven't met up socially since - we need to protect our DD (and DS). It sucks, but thankfully our family friend understands, complied with all the agencies, and wants to protect our DC as much as we go. I'm so grateful my DS told us what the boy had said. Sometimes you just have to explain to your children that "Person A made a poor choice and it's not safe to be their friend at the moment" etc... that's life.

There is a case for it just being a teenage boy wanting to boast about sexual things because he is insecure about fitting in and thinks it makes him cool, but there is also a risk that his behaviour will escalate in the future and he'll start to do more and more extreme things - especially if he knows he can do it without repercussions. I'm sorry OP. Protect your DC.

Honestly I would be going absolutely nuclear about this. I'd be at their door demanding that the lying little shit apologise and admit to what he did. Then I'd report him to the police.

It's sad but unfortunately your friend is choosing to back her son and basically calling your daughter a liar. So that would be it for me, friendship over. Reassure your daughter that it's not her fault, it's the boy's mother that has forced this abrupt ending to the friendship. She knows her children have lied about things before and yet still chooses to believe him.

Of course it's hard to accept your child has done wrong, but OP's friend is foolish to simply believe her son. It's pretty unlikely that a 10 year old would make this up - for what reason, knowing it would upset her mother? A responsible mother would probe further and encourage honesty. To simply accept the denial, if she has, is to teach her child he can lie about anything from here on in.

I wouldn't respect her as a parent to be honest, and would feel very awkward about any kind of further friendship.

If she was open and dealt with it, OP and her friend could maybe work out together how to safeguard the 10 year old.

You need to distance yourself and make sure your dc are never alone with their kids.

I had a similar situation and as a result we spent less time with them, and when we did it was in short periods of time and my dc stayed with us or played in front of us, never alone.

Thankfully they've now moved abroad so our interactions with them are limited. My sc are older so don't want to come when we visit anyway

You need to ensure the kids don't spend any time unsupervised with each other from now unless you can be sure there are no phones/online games going on as clearly the older boy can't be trusted. This obviously will make things more difficult and awkward and if your friend isn't on board with safeguarding your DC then I would probably be feeling like the friendship has come to a crossroads sadly.

I’ve never had a friend who would deal with any bad behaviour from their little darlings. Probably lost contact with 3 ‘friends’ because of this.
One shitty little kid who introduced porn to my son never set foot in my house again. His lovely mum thought it was funny.

Let her know that you were very disappointed in her response, in that it seems illogical to assume your daughter, who has no previous patterns of telling lies etc, who has limited access to online content and who didn’t even have the words to explain what she’d seen, has out of the blue fabricated a very detailed story and faked what appeared to be very sincere emotions in response to what happened. Tell her for this reason you need to take some time away from socialising with their family, to think about how you support your daughter after she has been courageous enough to share what happened. Explain that’s a difficult decision to make as her family are like family to you, but your daughters wellbeing is the priority. There’s no rush to make longer term decisions but some time of no contact might help your friend to reflect on her initial position. It is after all very common to first respond with denial when someone you care about is accused of something.

Funny how your kids are absolutely perfect and your friends kids are the devil incarnate

Thankyou, x

It’s just so accessible now, hence why my kids have limited internet access, and my 10 year old has none at all other than being able to talk to her friends from school over text (so I can monitor it)

Any need?

Far from perfect but when it comes to lying or anything that could get them in trouble Iv been very lucky. Hence why when they say something to this nature there is no doubt in my mind they are telling the truth

A teenage boy showing porn to a 10 year old girl should have police involvement, not a quiet chat with the parents.

It's not a good reaction, no, but it's hardly a huge surprise.

Finding out your 13 year old son did something sexually inappropriate with a younger child must be difficult. I think it's quite predictable that the mother is struggling to accept it and finds it easier to suggest the other child is lying.

I'm not saying it's an acceptable reaction, but I think it's quite naive to say that we would all react perfectly in a difficult situation. I'd like to think I would, but I can accept that I quite possibly wouldn't.

I would give the friendship with the mother some space, OP. You are not going to win any battles there. I would spend a lot of time reassuring your daughter that she's done the right thing, as it sounds like you're doing already.

The access that such young people have to pornography these days is really very frightening. It's something that scares me for when my children reach that age.