Severe lies between our children and friends children HELP

[New15]

Long one so will try and compress down!

I have 14 (Boy) and 10 (Girl)
Lifelong friends have 2 kids 14 (girl) and 13 (boy)

these people we see every weekend, we holiday together have been through good and bad together and are so important to us.

Background being both my friends kids have been caught out lying about Drinking, Vaping, talking to adults in a sexual nature over the internet sending explicit pictures to other people in the last 6 months or so.
My kids are the model of good behaviour, neither have ever done anything wrong (I’m so lucky) my boy 14 is massively into sport so his health is priority. We have different parenting styles, I am more of a gentle parent with the others being the opposite.
Both my kids are always honest and upfront and have never done anything to not have my trust.

my Daughter 10 last week said she had something to tell me and got really upset.
2 weeks ago, whilst round their house. My daughter (10) went in their sons room (13) for a few minutes a which is totally normal and had said he was having sexual conversations with other friends over PS5.
he had turned and said sorry did you know about that stuff?, to which she responded “yes, I did sex education at school last week”
He then proceeded to show her on his phone what I believe to be porn. He also asked her if she knew what it was. At 10 years old she was trying to describe what she saw, but struggled as she didn’t understand it, however I knew what she was talking about straight away. She felt uncomfortable and pretended to need a drink to which he said, if she was to tell me, he would say it was her and she would get into trouble.

Now she does have Tourette’s and struggles with decisions and some emotions massively which is why I assume it’s taken her a week to pluck the courage up to say something.

I rang my friend and explained what I had been told and that I was so shocked by it. The friend apologised to which I said it’s not your fault but please speak with him and let me know.

we knew he would lie because he lies about everything until it’s black and white in his face to which he couldn’t lie.

my friend rang me back the next day and said her son (13) has swore down he absolutely did not show her anything. There was nothing on his phone. That he had said, she had overheard him laughing in about sexual stuff with his friends which he apologised for but that was it.
I explained, that what my daughter told me, she couldn’t have known, and the way she explained it proved she didn’t know what it was, only she knew it wasn’t right.
My friend then proceeded to tell me my daughter probably knows much more than she lets on, and I should baby proof her phone! (Her phone has always been for school walking only) and she doesn’t have access to the internet at all.
So basically my friend has took her sons word and now it is incredibly awkward.

what do I do?
this is someone who is considered as family. We love each others kids like our own, and despite her kids going off the rails a little and lying Iv always loved them like they are my own.

I don’t know how to approach it at all!

My daughter had asked what was going on and I had to tell her that they believe he is telling the truth. To which she broke down in tears, and said she wish she never said anything. Which makes it worse I want her as a young girl to be able to tell me things that make her feel uncomfortable and to be heard. - And this isn’t a little white lie or swearing ect. This is a teenager lying about showing my 10 year old something extremely sexual.

this whole experience as a parent has me overwhelmed.

Thoughts from an outside viewer are greatly appreciated!

OP to be honest at this kind of age they normally grow apart anyway. Friends that were close at age 8 are just not always friends at 14. My DS has a friend who was close, they were constantly playing footie and round each other's houses. But the friend now vapes non stop, drinks and is massively into girls (I am not 100pc sure but is quite sexual with them) and my son is sporty and not into that at all.

We've just quietly let the friendship drop, no judgement on the parents form my side, I am sure they are trying to deal with it. But we just aren't hanging out as much or we suggest "adult drinks" instead.
You've said your piece to your friend, sadly this boy will now resent your DD for having told on him and so honestly you have to accept that from now on the friendship changes. It's more an adult friendship and leave the kids out of it. Sorry

Unfortunately when she said she believed her son over your daughter, this ruined the friendship op. She likely knows and is covering for him. I don’t really see how this friendship can continue without the kids being supervised and that might not be practical if you say they go in and out of the rooms. The only way to do it would be to keep them in the room with you and say exactly why to the mother but would it even be worth the annoyance it would generate? If you want to stay friends really it would have to be on a without kids basis, and from what you say, it sounds like the friendship is heavily based around the kids.

I think this was always going to be a problem at some point with the age difference between your youngest and the rest of the kids.

I’m going to leave aside the phone thing for the rest of this only because it can’t be proven what’s happened and who is telling the truth.

While the kids are only a few years apart in age they are miles away in maturity and development so what was your plan when the older ones started talking about girls and dating and all of those things that come with it in front of your youngest? 13-15 YOs have a very different set of conversations than a young 10 yo.

I think if you want to maintain the friendship you leave the kids out of it until the youngest is a bit older. But that will still likely be a problem in a few years but there will be less of a maturity difference.

ETC: 11 yo to 10 yo

I think it's appalling and illogical she is suggesting a 10 year old girl is making this stuff up

Please don’t think Iv just sat her down and said that so abruptly I’m trying to keep the post light for reading purposes.
we see these people weekly and have things planned all the time, so it’s not reasonable for me to think my daughter is just going to think - they are busy or we are too busy she would soon sus, and the reason my children are always so honest with me is that I have always been honest with them.
she had asked what was being done with the other boy and what her “auntie” as she refers to her has said.
I explained he has lied to them, and that’s their son, so they have every right to do as they please. That doesn’t mean that it’s right, it means I have no control over what they do as I’m not his parent. But regardless, I don’t want to be friends with people who think you could tell lies that severe. And actually there’s been a few things over the past few months that have lead me here and not solely this. And of course I have reassured her above and beyond and initially she was upset, but now she understands she’s 100% done the right thing and we will always back her 100% at whatever cost as it’s irrelevant.

just to clarify :) thankyou

I would never see them again. If you do it is a horrible message to your daughter who has been abused. I would also look into taking it further regarding safeguarding. Your daughter has to know what happened was not her fault and you will not tolerate it.

This is the point that has infuriated me the most. There’s defending your child, but then there is actually accusing my child.
It was how she described it, that she didn’t understand what she was describing that cemented it for me. She can’t make something up she knows absolutely nothing about!

This. I also think you were wrong to tell your dd the other mum didn’t believe her. What was the benefit of that? Of course it would deeply upset her. At the same time your friend believes her son, in the same way that you believe your dd. She may be wrong but it’s understandable.
Tell your DD how proud you are she told you and you will be taking steps to make sure she’s not in that situation again. Don’t leave them alone together again, and that’s all you need to do.

Please don’t think Iv just sat her down and said that so abruptly I’m trying to keep the post light for reading purposes.
we see these people weekly and have things planned all the time, so it’s not reasonable for me to think my daughter is just going to think - they are busy or we are too busy she would soon sus, and the reason my children are always so honest with me is that I have always been honest with them.
she had asked what was being done with the other boy and what her “auntie” as she refers to her has said.
I explained he has lied to them, and that’s their son, so they have every right to do as they please. That doesn’t mean that it’s right, it means I have no control over what they do as I’m not his parent. But regardless, I don’t want to be friends with people who think you could tell lies that severe. And actually there’s been a few things over the past few months that have lead me here and not solely this. And of course I have reassured her above and beyond and initially she was upset, but now she understands she’s 100% done the right thing and we will always back her 100% at whatever cost as it’s irrelevant.

just to clarify :) thankyou

Your friend would have so much crap to face up to if she accepts her son did this. Framing it as a 10 year old telling a lie is much more palatable to her.

You tell your DD you understand why she wishes she didn't say anything but that you feel the absolute opposite. Because her telling you means that it could be stopped and you can now keep her safe. Thank her for telling you and do lots of fun things to fill the gap of that family in her life. Don't show any sadness about having to cut them off or she may internalise that as her telling on him has led to you losing your friend. Just show that you are sad/cross that this happened to her, and glad to be able to put a stop to it.

Talking to adults in a sexual nature?

So being groomed then? Your language about a child being groomed by an adult online is concerning.

Tbh I would get SS involved. Your dd could well go into school and tell someone what she saw, then it would come out that you knew.

The friendship would be over for me here, but those kids need help, and your kid is going to need some support as well.

But in defending your child you were accusing hers, so you need to understand how this looks from her perspective too. She believes her son because he swore he was telling the truth. It’s her son. It’s natural she would believe him just like you believe your DD. You don’t need her to validate what your DD said, you believe her and you have the power to take steps to keep her safe. That’s all that matters.

This makes absolute sense, thankyou.

socially she wouldn’t want people thinking her son would do that so I think your right!

Agree with this. We have similar friends. My dc are girls and her DC are boys. There was a period of time they all played together like cousins and then they reached an age where my dds didn't feel like they had anything in common with these particular boys and we stopped.including the children in the plans, except for Christmas or an event where there were more children invited. Once the DC were older teens and had more of an interest in sitting at the table and chatting as adults, they all got on well again and voluntarily came along to these events.

It's probably best to leave your kids out of the engagements and see your friends in the evenings or at events where your DD is with you. But I'd probably find it awkward to see them at all if your friend is refusing to see her son as anything but innocent. I could not respect her parenting.

I don't think the boy was grooming her. I think he was showing off. However, given his interest in porn and sexual chat, that would be it for me in terms of him being near my daughter. For one thing he will be angry with her for telling on him.

Your friend has acted really badly in disbelieving your daughter, particularly given her age and the fact her child has form for bad behaviour. I would definitely pull away from this friendship, but I think she'll do the same as she won't want to face you after telling you lies.

Statistically it's much more likely that a 13 year old boy would have some experience of porn than a 10 year old girl.

Sorry didn’t elaborate on it.
They rang the police and it was dealt with from there. Of course it’s grooming I just meant it in a sense that the 14 year old was talking in a sexual nature and sending pictures on the phone but when approached it was all deleted and not there, giving context the 13 year old boy has done the same and deleted it. Sorry if it sounded offensive I really didn’t mean it to be.

You should inform your friend that she needs to tell her son that even if there is nothing on his phone now, if there has been something on his phone, the police will be able to find it in seconds, even if he has deleted it. You can take that to the bank. That should scare the little [expletive deleted]. Perhaps enough to come clean with his parents.

That said, I think this friendship is over. Despite her natural instinct to defend her son, she should have been concerned for the little ten year old.

So basically my friend has took her sons word and now it is incredibly awkward.

The thing is, you've taken your DD's word. (I do know she is the one who is least likely to have made it up!) . Both of you have sided with your own children and, without evidence, there isn't much else either of you can do really.

Distancing yourself for the time being is the right thing to do. Maybe things will change on the future.

Yep, as HelenaWaiting says - if the police look at kiddos phone, they can find things that kiddo thinks he has deleted.

I would want to make sure both he and his parents know that and probably bring it up face to face as he may well backtrack when he realises he hasn't hidden the evidence as well as he thinks.

Way before the days of the internet i was sexually abused by my parents best friends son. I was 7 he was 12 or 13. We were left alone in a room upstairs whilst our parents played cards. Nothing had ever happened before. To this day, nearly 40 years later, i have never told my parents for fear of breaking up their friendship with his parents. I had to ocntinue to see this boy then man for many years various events. It had a significant impact on my life for many years. You're lucky - your daughter has told you about this 'lower level' event. As others have said, if you do nothing else, ensure she is never alone in his company ever.

I’m so sorry this has happened to you.

I was sexually abused as a child and was worried if that was affecting my judgment in maybes being too over protective of my daughter. ( I know that sounds ridiculous but I can’t say it over words properly but hopefully you know what I mean) I don’t have family or many friends to talk to but you have all cemented in that I’m doing the right thing!

Awful how so many people have history of child sexual abuse. My daughters are now around the age i was at the time so i fully understand - I am extremely sensitive to everything in that sphere. I hope you get through this and are all ok x

This friendship may have been innocent when the children were younger but now no longer is. Their kids are clearly way more streetwise than your daughter and she is being put in a very vulnerable position. Good for her for removing herself from the situation.

Even if it's deleted, the police can retrieve it.