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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel like my child free friends want me to dislike having a child?

291 replies

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 00:57

Growing up, I observed that amongst my parents generation, there was a lot of jokes about husbands and wives disliking each other. This is often referred to as "boomer humour".

"The old ball and chain."

Jokes about his bald head and her fat bum.

It was all over birthday cards. It was all over tv and was generally part of every day conversation. Not to say that everyone actually felt that way but it felt like it was expected that they'd talk about each other that way.

I feel like my generation's (I'm in my 30s) equivalent to that is people joking about not liking their children. Parents often "jokingly" warn you "don't have kids". They do a sort of (either faux or real) jealousy when they hear about child free people going out to drinks as they have to be at home with a child. They constantly talk about needing wine to cope.

People without children often refer to children as smelly or gross or openly talk about how they could never cope with not having freedom.

I was child free for many years and I think it's great for people to be able to choose not to have children. I definitely don't think everyone should and it's obviously not the right thing for everyone. I believe people can be perfectly happy without children.

However I feel like a lot of people now seem to pity me for having a child and not being able to stay out late or make impromptu plans or "do whatever I want". Generally they talk about parenthood as being completely negative.

I confess that I felt this way before I had children. I definitely felt sorry for parents - thought they always looked stressed. Their lives didn't sound as fun. I thought mine seemed more fun - getting up when I want, not having responsibilities, being able to just think of myself.

The difference is that I didn't actually say this out loud to people with children!! As I knew it would be offensive to speak about their actual child who they loved as this horrible negative thing.

I've completely changed since having a child. I know that a lot of people will think it's for the worst but to me it feels like life is so much better now. Having a child is obviously hard sometimes but I love having him and I feel this complete and utter contentment and inner peace that I've craved my whole life. I have never been so at peace and happy ever before. I absolutely love being a mum and if I could go back in time I'd do it sooner and start sorting my life and finances out sooner so I could have had more.

I don't expect people to love or care about my child but I feel increasingly like having a child has almost become "uncool" amongst my (mostly childfree) peers. I'm constantly inundated with picture of peoples dogs. Everyone wants to meet these new dogs or see pictures or talk about and fuss over them. Sometimes they insist they love them as much as a parent loves their child (not in a joking 'fur baby' way either)

Any even mention of my child is at best smiled politely at before immediately changing the subject or worst I am told how they don't like children and sometimes they're called things like "crotch goblins". This is not in a loving jokey way.

Again I know nobody else owes me anything and has no reason to be interested in my child. I just feel it's weird that I'm expected to constantly talk about and look at pictures of dogs but if when giving an update about what's been happening with me I mention that my child learned to walk or talk or cartwheel, its boring and not an acceptable conversation.

When people find out I have a child they seem to feel sorry for me and want to brag about how they don't have one and their life is so easy.

I've tried making friends with mums at groups but I don't seem to have a lot in common with ones I've met and now I am back to working full time it is harder. A lot of people I meet through work, my interests etc tend to be childfree for whatever reason.

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 02/06/2024 08:24

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I’m childless not by choice - infertility - and pretty much at peace with that. I have a great, full life. I fact I think that if I had my life over I would choose to be childfree. I refuse to be told that my life is second rate. And the “oh aI didn’t mean you, I meant people who choose not to have children” - that doesn’t wash. Anything you say about childfree people is very likely to be hurtful to the childless not by choice as well.

BTW I’m never rude to parents about their children.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 08:25

I think, depending on age and level of readiness, there can be an element of "please reinforce my idea of how terrible it is for X reason". I had a baby when I was 19, in the era of sex education being ramped up to respond to all the teenage pregnancies, and most of my uni friends were horrified. I was constantly being asked, "pregnancy is horrible, yeah?", "is it awful?", "do you never sleep?", "do you feel like you're missing out?", and the reactions when I was really positive about it were really surprising!

I do wonder if people's extreme anti-child reactions (not choosing to be child free, but the "crotch goblin" and "life ruining" type comments) are a bit of a backlash to that very heavy handed "having a baby will RUIN YOUR LIFE and DESTROY YOUR BODY and YOU'LL LOSE ALL YOUR FRIENDS" type sex ed that was about when we were growing up, because I know my friends and peers at uni expected me to struggle/drop out/hate every bit of it, and were shocked when I didn't.

MariaVT65 · 02/06/2024 08:25

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Haha what bollocks

KimberleyClark · 02/06/2024 08:26

Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo · 02/06/2024 08:24

I mean, the idea that humans are more valuable and important than animals is quite a fundamental underpinning of all human society, though, isn't it?

Humans are animals. And whether we are more important to the planet than any other species is highly debatable.

PearlKoala · 02/06/2024 08:28

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 08:10

The way they move, make noise, soak up all adult attention really stresses me out. I didn't like kids when I was a kid. Being an adult is awesome! I'm not saying it's impossible I'd meet a child I liked but it hasn't happened yet. They inevitably have the traits of their developmental stage. I don't hate them like they're bad or something I just hate being around their energy.

I know I'm not the centre of the universe and it's my problem to manage but I don't agree that disliking children is difficult to understand.

I dont know I feel like if I said this about older people I would be slated and called ageist. I just hate old people's energy you know, the way they move so slowly and the nouses when getting up its like they are looking to soak up all of the attention. And heaven help us if I started talking about them smelling like people do with children.

People freely talk about children like they are some kind of inferior species not just humans in one stage of development who vary widely just like adults. My 2 kids couldn't have been more different as youngsters. I think a society that doesn't respect children is heading down a slippery slope.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 08:29

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 08:25

I think, depending on age and level of readiness, there can be an element of "please reinforce my idea of how terrible it is for X reason". I had a baby when I was 19, in the era of sex education being ramped up to respond to all the teenage pregnancies, and most of my uni friends were horrified. I was constantly being asked, "pregnancy is horrible, yeah?", "is it awful?", "do you never sleep?", "do you feel like you're missing out?", and the reactions when I was really positive about it were really surprising!

I do wonder if people's extreme anti-child reactions (not choosing to be child free, but the "crotch goblin" and "life ruining" type comments) are a bit of a backlash to that very heavy handed "having a baby will RUIN YOUR LIFE and DESTROY YOUR BODY and YOU'LL LOSE ALL YOUR FRIENDS" type sex ed that was about when we were growing up, because I know my friends and peers at uni expected me to struggle/drop out/hate every bit of it, and were shocked when I didn't.

Just realised I've made it sound like they weren't supportive; they were absolutely amazing, they were just surprised that having a baby wasn't the absolute catastrophic life ruining experience it was made out to be.

Youcansodoffmate · 02/06/2024 08:29

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 00:57

Growing up, I observed that amongst my parents generation, there was a lot of jokes about husbands and wives disliking each other. This is often referred to as "boomer humour".

"The old ball and chain."

Jokes about his bald head and her fat bum.

It was all over birthday cards. It was all over tv and was generally part of every day conversation. Not to say that everyone actually felt that way but it felt like it was expected that they'd talk about each other that way.

I feel like my generation's (I'm in my 30s) equivalent to that is people joking about not liking their children. Parents often "jokingly" warn you "don't have kids". They do a sort of (either faux or real) jealousy when they hear about child free people going out to drinks as they have to be at home with a child. They constantly talk about needing wine to cope.

People without children often refer to children as smelly or gross or openly talk about how they could never cope with not having freedom.

I was child free for many years and I think it's great for people to be able to choose not to have children. I definitely don't think everyone should and it's obviously not the right thing for everyone. I believe people can be perfectly happy without children.

However I feel like a lot of people now seem to pity me for having a child and not being able to stay out late or make impromptu plans or "do whatever I want". Generally they talk about parenthood as being completely negative.

I confess that I felt this way before I had children. I definitely felt sorry for parents - thought they always looked stressed. Their lives didn't sound as fun. I thought mine seemed more fun - getting up when I want, not having responsibilities, being able to just think of myself.

The difference is that I didn't actually say this out loud to people with children!! As I knew it would be offensive to speak about their actual child who they loved as this horrible negative thing.

I've completely changed since having a child. I know that a lot of people will think it's for the worst but to me it feels like life is so much better now. Having a child is obviously hard sometimes but I love having him and I feel this complete and utter contentment and inner peace that I've craved my whole life. I have never been so at peace and happy ever before. I absolutely love being a mum and if I could go back in time I'd do it sooner and start sorting my life and finances out sooner so I could have had more.

I don't expect people to love or care about my child but I feel increasingly like having a child has almost become "uncool" amongst my (mostly childfree) peers. I'm constantly inundated with picture of peoples dogs. Everyone wants to meet these new dogs or see pictures or talk about and fuss over them. Sometimes they insist they love them as much as a parent loves their child (not in a joking 'fur baby' way either)

Any even mention of my child is at best smiled politely at before immediately changing the subject or worst I am told how they don't like children and sometimes they're called things like "crotch goblins". This is not in a loving jokey way.

Again I know nobody else owes me anything and has no reason to be interested in my child. I just feel it's weird that I'm expected to constantly talk about and look at pictures of dogs but if when giving an update about what's been happening with me I mention that my child learned to walk or talk or cartwheel, its boring and not an acceptable conversation.

When people find out I have a child they seem to feel sorry for me and want to brag about how they don't have one and their life is so easy.

I've tried making friends with mums at groups but I don't seem to have a lot in common with ones I've met and now I am back to working full time it is harder. A lot of people I meet through work, my interests etc tend to be childfree for whatever reason.

I think it’s because this is how you felt - you assume most people still think like you did.

They don’t

SoEmbarrassed2024 · 02/06/2024 08:31

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What utter bollocks

Pleaselettheholidayend · 02/06/2024 08:34

PearlKoala · 02/06/2024 08:28

I dont know I feel like if I said this about older people I would be slated and called ageist. I just hate old people's energy you know, the way they move so slowly and the nouses when getting up its like they are looking to soak up all of the attention. And heaven help us if I started talking about them smelling like people do with children.

People freely talk about children like they are some kind of inferior species not just humans in one stage of development who vary widely just like adults. My 2 kids couldn't have been more different as youngsters. I think a society that doesn't respect children is heading down a slippery slope.

Yh I agree, add in that children are the most vulnerable members of our society and can't challenge this or defend themselves or are even aware of the mean things adults can say or think of them it makes me uncomfortable? Real punching down and then some of the people spouting the most anti child shit think they are incredibly enlightened?

Nottodaythankyou123 · 02/06/2024 08:36

Catsmere · 02/06/2024 08:15

Only seems to be kids people are so weird about 😂

@Nottodaythankyou123 I've had an ex-neighbour launch into a rant about how much she hated cats when I mentioned having two indoor cats. Worse, she started trotting out a story about cruelty she allegedly witnessed as her excuse for why she hated them.

That’s one specific example though - as a general rule you don’t hear people launching into tirades about how much they hate dogs if someone talks about their dog, which is an experience many of us have had with children. You only have to read this thread to see that many many people have experienced the same thing, whereas the cat example seems much more unusual (and who doesn’t love cats anyway?!)
Like I said, I’m not fussed if my friends don’t like my kids but at the bare minimum I would expect them to not be openly rude about them, in the way I wouldn’t like them being openly rude about my mum or my sister.

Nouvellenovel · 02/06/2024 08:37

The British have always had a strange attitude to children imo.
There seem to be two distinct groups, those that see children as a pest that has to be endured, rather like flies buzzing around and then there are parents who pour everything into their dc to the point of boring their friends silly.

LittleLeggs · 02/06/2024 08:37

Well you kind of lost me at
"I confess that I felt this way before I had children. I definitely felt sorry for parents - thought they always looked stressed. Their lives didn't sound as fun. I thought mine seemed more fun - getting up when I want, not having responsibilities, being able to just think of myself.".... And the bit about now taking some responsibility for your finances

That's not what my child free life is like at all. I am responsible, have many reasons to get out of bed early, don't just think of myself and have a great handle on my finances. Just saying, you sound just as bad as your friends in terms of probably coming across as thinking your life is better.

You clearly have different interests. They like dogs, you like children. Find friends with similar interests.

Overthebow · 02/06/2024 08:39

ByPeachSeal · 02/06/2024 08:20

I’m saying it’s not possible they can ever love their dog like they would a child (if they had one).

The love someone has for a pet cannot even be compared to the love someone has for a child.

This. It’s absolutely ridiculous to insist that you love a dog the same or more than you’d love your own child. If you’ve never had children you can’t possibly understand the love you have for your child, it is not comparable to anything.

HollyKnight · 02/06/2024 08:41

I don't think not liking children is the same as being anti-children. I'm pretty sure everyone understands that children are needed for society to continue. They just don't like them or enjoy them in the child stage because they can be irritating and disruptive. And I think a lot of the annoyance is actually aimed at the parents rather than the children.

Catsmere · 02/06/2024 08:41

Nottodaythankyou123 · 02/06/2024 08:36

That’s one specific example though - as a general rule you don’t hear people launching into tirades about how much they hate dogs if someone talks about their dog, which is an experience many of us have had with children. You only have to read this thread to see that many many people have experienced the same thing, whereas the cat example seems much more unusual (and who doesn’t love cats anyway?!)
Like I said, I’m not fussed if my friends don’t like my kids but at the bare minimum I would expect them to not be openly rude about them, in the way I wouldn’t like them being openly rude about my mum or my sister.

Fair enough not in person, but there's certainly plenty of dog hate trotted out on MN!

I certainly agree about not being rude about children to their parents. I just say I've never cared for children when people start pushing me to enthuse about theirs. No insults or anything, I only say more when they won't take no for an answer (which is rare).

DecafCanEffOff · 02/06/2024 08:43

I’m childfree and I’ve never once referred to someone’s child as a crotch goblin, that’s staggeringly rude.

What I have definitely noticed is that, in this era of clickbaity social media influencers, is that extreme positions are becoming normalised. It’s like EVERY single life choice is becoming a tribe you must join and represent. It’s so dull and unbelievably divisive.

Whats great about societal progress is that women don’t feel they have to have kids, but the reaction to that has made many overly defensive. Now it’s (apparently) a fight to prove you made the right choice. It’s daft.

The reality is, your (as in anyone’s) reality and choices are what they are. I chose not to have children and feel great about it (I’m 48) but I’m sure if I’d had children I would also have felt great about it. This conversation about the “right” choice is doomed to fail because we are talking about alternate realities that we cannot see.

What everyone needs to do is stop having an opinion on other peoples’ choices and just be normal and polite.

Urgh. It’s exhausting.

But - to go back to your original post, OP - I think you have really shit friends, but many of them will choose kids and understand. It’s just a waiting game.

Nottodaythankyou123 · 02/06/2024 08:44

Catsmere · 02/06/2024 08:41

Fair enough not in person, but there's certainly plenty of dog hate trotted out on MN!

I certainly agree about not being rude about children to their parents. I just say I've never cared for children when people start pushing me to enthuse about theirs. No insults or anything, I only say more when they won't take no for an answer (which is rare).

Exactly, and I don’t think anyone could reasonably be upset about that! Also, let’s face it, people who bang on and on and on about their kids to people who clearly aren’t interested also need to check their behaviour 😂 the only people I spam with comments are my family who can’t escape me 🤣🤣🤣

Musiclover234 · 02/06/2024 08:44

I have friends that are both Childfree and parents. i have chosen not to have kids but i don’t dislike them infact my career is with them and their families.

I have supported my parent friends through all their troubles and needs as i understand it’s hard though i’ve never always received the same support back when struggling. Different struggles but life still is hard sometimes.

I have spent time with their kids and i don’t hate children so it’s all good from me. I’ve understood how busy things get and how hard it is to arrange to meet etc. I don’t diss their life choices or but i do feel i have been judged by some in society by choosing not to parent. Even quietly or silently by some friends. Look at this post, we are brainwashed, lonely, miserable…. when in reality no we aren’t.

As for my childfree friends we don’t discuss children full stop. Why would we? We have other interests and things to talk about. We aren’t negative towards our parent friends either it’s just different life choices.

I think childfree people are judged more by many ( not all)parents than vice versa tbh.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 08:45

PearlKoala · 02/06/2024 08:28

I dont know I feel like if I said this about older people I would be slated and called ageist. I just hate old people's energy you know, the way they move so slowly and the nouses when getting up its like they are looking to soak up all of the attention. And heaven help us if I started talking about them smelling like people do with children.

People freely talk about children like they are some kind of inferior species not just humans in one stage of development who vary widely just like adults. My 2 kids couldn't have been more different as youngsters. I think a society that doesn't respect children is heading down a slippery slope.

Old people are much less homogenous than children. You might think yours are special and unique but it's same old to some of us.

MrsDTucker · 02/06/2024 08:46

We were all childfree for years, do you mean you had your children late?

SapphireSlippers · 02/06/2024 08:47

Everything can have a negative spin

Rich? You'll never understand the wonderful simple life

Poor? Obvious

Childless/free ? You'll never know the joy of a child telling you they love you

Have children? You've lost your freedom

Working? Too much stress

Not working ? Waiting your life

Going on holiday ? Waste of time and money, would rather spend on my house

Not going on holiday? Missing out on experiences

You name it, someone somewhere can put a negative spin on it

GalileoHumpkins · 02/06/2024 08:48

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Bless your heart.

PearlKoala · 02/06/2024 08:49

Pleaselettheholidayend · 02/06/2024 08:34

Yh I agree, add in that children are the most vulnerable members of our society and can't challenge this or defend themselves or are even aware of the mean things adults can say or think of them it makes me uncomfortable? Real punching down and then some of the people spouting the most anti child shit think they are incredibly enlightened?

Edited

Yeah I just feel like if there is no respect there and children aren't seen as equal it leaves them open to abuse. The same way if you don't see elderly as being equal then it will change how you treat them and leave them open to abuse in care centres or make people feel more comfortable taking advantage of them etc because they are just old people.

People are open about disliking children and talking down about children in a way they wouldn't be about other sections of society and when we accept that it normalises the idea that children are less than and can be treated as such.

KimberleyClark · 02/06/2024 08:49

I do know parents who literally have no interests or passions other than their children/grandchildren. I spend as little time as possible with them because they’re bores, quite frankly.

MrsDTucker · 02/06/2024 08:50

On Monday I was with my brother and sister and my sisters 2 friends , all are late 30s / early 40s and have never wanted kids. They were slagging kids off. They all don't want them. I thought well that's ok but I don't talk about how I wouldn't want their 5 horses and 22 dogs!!!