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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel like my child free friends want me to dislike having a child?

291 replies

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 00:57

Growing up, I observed that amongst my parents generation, there was a lot of jokes about husbands and wives disliking each other. This is often referred to as "boomer humour".

"The old ball and chain."

Jokes about his bald head and her fat bum.

It was all over birthday cards. It was all over tv and was generally part of every day conversation. Not to say that everyone actually felt that way but it felt like it was expected that they'd talk about each other that way.

I feel like my generation's (I'm in my 30s) equivalent to that is people joking about not liking their children. Parents often "jokingly" warn you "don't have kids". They do a sort of (either faux or real) jealousy when they hear about child free people going out to drinks as they have to be at home with a child. They constantly talk about needing wine to cope.

People without children often refer to children as smelly or gross or openly talk about how they could never cope with not having freedom.

I was child free for many years and I think it's great for people to be able to choose not to have children. I definitely don't think everyone should and it's obviously not the right thing for everyone. I believe people can be perfectly happy without children.

However I feel like a lot of people now seem to pity me for having a child and not being able to stay out late or make impromptu plans or "do whatever I want". Generally they talk about parenthood as being completely negative.

I confess that I felt this way before I had children. I definitely felt sorry for parents - thought they always looked stressed. Their lives didn't sound as fun. I thought mine seemed more fun - getting up when I want, not having responsibilities, being able to just think of myself.

The difference is that I didn't actually say this out loud to people with children!! As I knew it would be offensive to speak about their actual child who they loved as this horrible negative thing.

I've completely changed since having a child. I know that a lot of people will think it's for the worst but to me it feels like life is so much better now. Having a child is obviously hard sometimes but I love having him and I feel this complete and utter contentment and inner peace that I've craved my whole life. I have never been so at peace and happy ever before. I absolutely love being a mum and if I could go back in time I'd do it sooner and start sorting my life and finances out sooner so I could have had more.

I don't expect people to love or care about my child but I feel increasingly like having a child has almost become "uncool" amongst my (mostly childfree) peers. I'm constantly inundated with picture of peoples dogs. Everyone wants to meet these new dogs or see pictures or talk about and fuss over them. Sometimes they insist they love them as much as a parent loves their child (not in a joking 'fur baby' way either)

Any even mention of my child is at best smiled politely at before immediately changing the subject or worst I am told how they don't like children and sometimes they're called things like "crotch goblins". This is not in a loving jokey way.

Again I know nobody else owes me anything and has no reason to be interested in my child. I just feel it's weird that I'm expected to constantly talk about and look at pictures of dogs but if when giving an update about what's been happening with me I mention that my child learned to walk or talk or cartwheel, its boring and not an acceptable conversation.

When people find out I have a child they seem to feel sorry for me and want to brag about how they don't have one and their life is so easy.

I've tried making friends with mums at groups but I don't seem to have a lot in common with ones I've met and now I am back to working full time it is harder. A lot of people I meet through work, my interests etc tend to be childfree for whatever reason.

OP posts:
TheaBrandt · 02/06/2024 16:16

I was never particularly mumsy but genuinely have found many other peoples children really delightful. Dd used to have parties mid primary and invite the boys such a great group of little lads and inadvertently hilariously funny. I wonder if the “hate all children” brigade have spent any time with actual children?

HollyKnight · 02/06/2024 16:33

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 02/06/2024 14:48

I don't think not liking children is the same as being anti-children.

Say that about any other demographic (age, sex, ethnicity, religion...). How does it make you feel?

Not wanting children is perfectly fine.

Not appreciating children as human beings deserving of respect, dignity and reasonable accommodation in our society is an entirely different matter. Which is something OP´s friends and many other people seem to be doing, unfortunately.

And no, I am not a parent.

Edited

I don't like guns, but I can still accept their existence has a purpose. I still don't want one in my face. The same with spiders, politicians, taxes etc.

And I am a parent.

BruFord · 02/06/2024 16:37

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 08:10

The way they move, make noise, soak up all adult attention really stresses me out. I didn't like kids when I was a kid. Being an adult is awesome! I'm not saying it's impossible I'd meet a child I liked but it hasn't happened yet. They inevitably have the traits of their developmental stage. I don't hate them like they're bad or something I just hate being around their energy.

I know I'm not the centre of the universe and it's my problem to manage but I don't agree that disliking children is difficult to understand.

@OptimismvsRealism I’m sure that you don’t verbalize your dislike in a derogatory way though, because doing so would be no different than saying “I dislike all disabled people,” for example.

Children are **younger human beings than us, not an alien species.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 16:47

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 14:04

I know loads of children. I really feel a bit sad at how much less satisfying my adult relationships are after the relevant adults have had kids. I would not ever mention this, though. It's a bit like if a friend moves away for an amazing job. I'm sad because I've lost them in my life but I do recognise their choices will make them happy.

I think most parents recognise that children are objectively annoying while also being subjectively beloved, though...

Children are not "objectively annoying", though. That's like saying that people who dislike children are "objectively annoying" (or again, I'll come back to my earlier examples - old people are objectively annoying, or disabled people are objectively annoying).

You're expressing an opinion, opinions are inherently subjective. I've met some annoying children, but I certainly don't think that children as a group are annoying, and I've taught a fair few.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:52

BruFord · 02/06/2024 16:37

@OptimismvsRealism I’m sure that you don’t verbalize your dislike in a derogatory way though, because doing so would be no different than saying “I dislike all disabled people,” for example.

Children are **younger human beings than us, not an alien species.

It's really not the same (although yes ageism in Scotland is now in some circumstances a crime so another reason to be diplomatic about it!)

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:55

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 16:47

Children are not "objectively annoying", though. That's like saying that people who dislike children are "objectively annoying" (or again, I'll come back to my earlier examples - old people are objectively annoying, or disabled people are objectively annoying).

You're expressing an opinion, opinions are inherently subjective. I've met some annoying children, but I certainly don't think that children as a group are annoying, and I've taught a fair few.

I suppose it's all culturally relative but noise tends to annoy UK adults, self centred conversation tends to annoy adults, needing to have basic things explained and done for them is tiresome.

I do get that some (many) people have overriding feelings of affection for them. But they're bad company if you don't!

PiIIock · 02/06/2024 17:01

Children can be annoying at any age, but it's still not usual to universally dislike them. Adult friends can annoy us, family can annoy us, partners... any human or animal can and will be annoying

BruFord · 02/06/2024 17:05

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:52

It's really not the same (although yes ageism in Scotland is now in some circumstances a crime so another reason to be diplomatic about it!)

It’s not the same in your opinion @OptimismvsRealism , but other people may disagree.

My point is simply that we all need to be mindful of others’ feelings and not be outright rude about children, in the same way that we wouldn’t be rude about other groups. I’d be rightly crucified if I said that I disliked autistic people, because that’s horrible. I have friends with autistic children/relatives and it certainly wouldn’t be acceptable to be rude about people with autism to them.

It’s the old maxim- if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything.

BruFord · 02/06/2024 17:07

PiIIock · 02/06/2024 17:01

Children can be annoying at any age, but it's still not usual to universally dislike them. Adult friends can annoy us, family can annoy us, partners... any human or animal can and will be annoying

Exactly, @PiIIock. I like dogs, but one of my neighbors’ dogs is a pain. I don’t like him much, because he tries to bite everyone!

mrlistersgelfbride · 02/06/2024 17:23

I resonate with this.

I'm a mum of 1 child and most of my old friends have no kids. At my workplace, more people don't have kids than have them. And they don't understand what it's like to be a parent. How can they? I didn't before I was one.
I always remember - a big group of old friends went out on NYE and I didn't want to go, I'd rather be with DD, and I couldn't anyway. They sent me a photo...they looked like they were having a ball. It was like being childfree was the default option and having kids was unusual.
I'm very much for this by the way- I think a childfree life can be fantastic and that having a child is very hard- but when you are a mum there's no going back!

I have to say no to lots of invitations- mainly nights out- I can't do everything as I often don't have childcare and DD does activities.
I made friends with mums at my daughter's school eventually but they are opposite ends of the scale and some have 3 or 4 kids and can't understand me either!

So I'll be your friend! 🤣 I know that a mum of 1 can be a weird place to be.
I'm sure you'll make mum friends in time.
It's early days for you. Don't rush it.

StormingNorman · 02/06/2024 17:23

Thewildthingsarewithme · 02/06/2024 07:37

I went to a cafe recently where the queue was about 20 deep, I had my objectively very cute three week old with me. The man in front of me had a puppy. As he left every person on the queue squealed and cooed and gushed over this puppy so loudly and excessively that they all laughed at themselves, I then walked out with my human baby who was barely even glanced at 😂 i

This is quite true. I coo over every dog I see in the coffee shop. When I see someone with a baby I hope they’re not going to sit next to me 😂

I’d never thought about it before!

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 18:07

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:55

I suppose it's all culturally relative but noise tends to annoy UK adults, self centred conversation tends to annoy adults, needing to have basic things explained and done for them is tiresome.

I do get that some (many) people have overriding feelings of affection for them. But they're bad company if you don't!

Noisy, self centered and needing basic things explained sounds like many adults - and I know many children who don't match that description at all.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 18:10

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 18:07

Noisy, self centered and needing basic things explained sounds like many adults - and I know many children who don't match that description at all.

It DOES sound like many adults and I'd avoid them too!

Children can't be more than nature allows them to be.

daliesque · 02/06/2024 18:29

Interesting how the OP hasn't been back all day 🤔

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 19:04

Thanks all! I didn't expect this many replies. Sorry I obviously can't reply to all.

When I say I was child free for years I mean that for my 20s and some of my 30s I intended never to have children. My pregnancy was unplanned and I changed my mind. It's different to someone who plans to one day have children but waits until their 30s.

I was not implying that childfree people are not responsible with money. I was saying that I did not save as much as I could have done and didn't put as much effort into getting onto the properly ladder quickly. Now I have one child and if I'd started earlier I would have definitely had more.

My financial situation isn't ideal now to have more children and by the time it is I don't know if I'll be at an age I'm happy/able to have more. I was saying that, had I known how I would feel id have done it earlier and had more. It was a comment on how I'm unexpectedly enjoying it rather than an implication that childfree people are irresponsible with finances. Which would be ridiculous because most childfree people I know are much better off financially for obvious reasons.

A lot of comments discuss having different interests to my friends now and needing to find people who are more like me. I do agree with that. I wanted to post to see peoples thoughts because we otherwise get along well and in every other way they are very nice.

I will put more effort into finding mum friends.

I'm surprised though that so many see it as not been interested in my child because we have different interests. I don't think I tend to make friends with exactly the same interests as me - I make friends with people with the same values as me and whose company I enjoy but a lot of them have interests I don't share.

I'd never want to run a marathon but when someone tells me about it I don't tell them how boring a marathon sounds. I chat about it it and ask them questions. I wouldn't run a marathon myself but I'm interested because I care about them and their lives. It would seem really rude to say, in response to someone telling you about their marathon, "oh I'd hate that poor you".

If I really specifically had interest friends - like dog lover friends or knitting friends then it would feel more like being part of a club. There's fun in that too but I've always just made friends with people I like and find interesting rather than thinking much about interests. Obviously this is bigger than the other examples as it is such a massive part of life that dictates how your time is spent, but I was surprised to read so many people saying they're generally not interested in hearing about other peoples interests that they don't share.

I don't want to hear about fishing for hours but someone telling me briefly about a lovely fishing weekend they went on and a big fish they caught in passing while we caught up wouldn't bother me.

I never expect to go on about my child for hours and rarely speak about him but when we catch up and discuss what's going on in our lives, I've been mentioning things about him because he's a big part of my life in the same way they talk about their dogs for the same reason. I show interest when they do so.

I don't have an issue with anyone loving their dog like family. I don't think they love them in the same way parents love their human children and I would find it really odd if someone with a human child and a pet loved them the same amount and in the same way.

That doesn't mean that they can't love their pets very much and be very happy having pets. I just don't think the feelings are comparable and I'm surprised it seems more mainstream now to insist they are.

I actually like dogs by the way.

A couple of people seem to think that me confessing to feeling sorry for parents before I had children is some kind of "gotcha". My very point was that I understand why, in their eyes, my life doesn't look as fun now because I've thought the same in the past. Mentioning it to someone's face is rude though. I wouldn't have done that.

I didn't make the thread to bash childfree people. I don't think they're all secretly unhappy, although I guess some are especially if it's not actually by choice which I sympathise with.

Just because I've found happiness with children it doesn't mean others would and doesn't mean they're missing out or they're stupid etc. if anything, like a pp mentioned, I actually get the opposite vibe like they feel like I'm an idiot / stupid / beneath them because of my choice. I think it's massive progress in society that women now really feel they have a choice. I just don't think it's necessary for the choice to have children to be looked down on.

Thank you for those both with children and childfree people who have responded and especially those who have sympathised and suggested it's time I expand my friendships. I will try that.

I'll try to come back and add specific replies where I can. I can see I'm already being criticised for not returning sooner. I posted last night before going to sleep and have been with my son every minute of the day until his bedtime just now. That's not a complaint - we had a great day. I'm explaining why I didn't have chance to read, digest and formulate a response to an almost 300 post thread during that one Sunday daytime.

OP posts:
MsCactus · 02/06/2024 19:59

I agree with all of this so much.

Before I had DD I was terrified of becoming a parent - despite always wanting it - because everyone told me it was awful.

It wasn't. It's wonderful. She's hilarious and sweet and adorable. Me and DH adore her, our mornings and evenings are spent laughing together and in terms of OUR (despite being told DC kill romance) we have great sex more than ever.

My figure also wasn't "ruined", my social life wasn't "ruined" either and DH will watch DD while I go for drinks or vice versa.

I have no idea why the narrative is that kids are awful but it definitely is. The people who don't pity me make out as if I'm some kind of superwoman for being happy with a hard job and a lovely DD.

My life was way more miserable and "harder" in that I used to obsess about pointless things before I had DD. Life was way less fun.

I don't know why everyone says having kids are terrible nowadays, but it's probably contributing to such a low birthrate tbh.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 20:08

Because it is terrible for a lot of people. You had a kid you loved (not everyone gets a kid who is easy to love) and have a partner who shares equally and your brain didn't rebel atthe tedium. That doesn't mean motherhood is a good idea for others.

MsCactus · 02/06/2024 20:34

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:55

I suppose it's all culturally relative but noise tends to annoy UK adults, self centred conversation tends to annoy adults, needing to have basic things explained and done for them is tiresome.

I do get that some (many) people have overriding feelings of affection for them. But they're bad company if you don't!

Not necessarily. I only have one 18-month-old, but she is a charmer. Does silly little jokes to people - for example, pretends to feed them then quickly eats it and giggles. Gives very cheeky looks. Basically all my child free friends have been charmed by her - even some have said they hated the thought of kids and after meeting her now want one.

I get some kids are selfish and entitled, but so are some adults. It's not universal that kids are annoying and selfish - sometimes they're great fun and hilarious, just like some adults are

Ditto some dogs attack and harm people, others are totally adorable

BruFord · 02/06/2024 20:41

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 20:08

Because it is terrible for a lot of people. You had a kid you loved (not everyone gets a kid who is easy to love) and have a partner who shares equally and your brain didn't rebel atthe tedium. That doesn't mean motherhood is a good idea for others.

Edited

@OptimismvsRealism Have your parents said that they find having you terrible?

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 20:42

MsCactus · 02/06/2024 20:34

Not necessarily. I only have one 18-month-old, but she is a charmer. Does silly little jokes to people - for example, pretends to feed them then quickly eats it and giggles. Gives very cheeky looks. Basically all my child free friends have been charmed by her - even some have said they hated the thought of kids and after meeting her now want one.

I get some kids are selfish and entitled, but so are some adults. It's not universal that kids are annoying and selfish - sometimes they're great fun and hilarious, just like some adults are

Ditto some dogs attack and harm people, others are totally adorable

I can assure you she would annoy me. Child free friends are usually polite in the face of THIS ONE'S DIFFERENT, THOUGH, RIGHT???

I find small children manipulative and dislike how they're allowed to dominate dult conversation. They're not funny but everyone has to pretend.

Wotcher · 02/06/2024 20:48

I’ve never made out to parent friends that their life must be stunted and boring due to kids, or openly said how “free” I am. But I genuinely have absolutely zero interest in anything their kids do.

Disclaimer: that might be different if my parent-friends made a tad more effort to maintain our friendships and invite me round/came to visit more, or even invited me for a walk or to the park with them and their kid so I might actually get to KNOW the kid. But they make it so difficult to see them that oftentimes I only know their kids via photos on Facebook. So I’m afraid I’ve no interest in a child I don’t even know.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 02/06/2024 20:51

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 20:42

I can assure you she would annoy me. Child free friends are usually polite in the face of THIS ONE'S DIFFERENT, THOUGH, RIGHT???

I find small children manipulative and dislike how they're allowed to dominate dult conversation. They're not funny but everyone has to pretend.

I used to think that too but when you have children you realise at that age they’re incapable of being manipulative, at least on the level that an adult is (by a long way). They’re utterly transparent about their feelings and their attempts to conceal them are laughable.

I do agree though that people who are convinced others all find their child charming probably have their mummy goggles on, as I don’t find other children anywhere near as cute/funny as I find my DD and DS. And realistically I know other people will feel the same about my kids.

MsCactus · 02/06/2024 20:59

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 20:42

I can assure you she would annoy me. Child free friends are usually polite in the face of THIS ONE'S DIFFERENT, THOUGH, RIGHT???

I find small children manipulative and dislike how they're allowed to dominate dult conversation. They're not funny but everyone has to pretend.

Fair enough. I haven't told anyone my daughter's different - I've just had friends who are adamant they hate kids come up to me afterwards kind of shell shocked and say they think they want kids now after meeting her.

I have no desire to convince child free people that kids are fun - it's up to everyone to make their own choices - but it's probs worth bearing in mind that no two kids are similar whatsoever

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 21:10

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 20:42

I can assure you she would annoy me. Child free friends are usually polite in the face of THIS ONE'S DIFFERENT, THOUGH, RIGHT???

I find small children manipulative and dislike how they're allowed to dominate dult conversation. They're not funny but everyone has to pretend.

An 18m old manipulative ? Dominating conversation ? I think you are projecting adult motives and understanding onto very young children.

It must be difficult for you, have you considered talking to someone about how children make you feel ?

MrsDTucker · 02/06/2024 21:18

@MsCactus

Basically all my child free friends have been charmed by her - even some have said they hated the thought of kids and after meeting her now want one.

Maybe you should introduce her to the childfree board.

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