To complain about “gender identity” question on a registration form

[Manhere2024]

Man here. I just tried to fill in a form sent out by a charity, but one of the questions was:

“Is your gender identity the same as the gender you were assigned at birth?”

I tried ignoring it, but it’s not possible to submit the form without answering this question.

So I emailed them saying that I don’t believe in gender identity theory, & it’s discriminatory for them not to give an option for those of us who are gender critical. I have asked if they can change the form, or handle my registration in another way.

I think they’ll be surprised, and perhaps I’ve embarrassed myself. But I won’t go along with something I consider to be harmful and wrong.

AIBU? What will likely happen next?

So z”identity as” is now problematic
previously “transwoman” was Ok but now got to be “trans woman “
used to be “preferred pronouns” but now just “pronouns”.

why are we meant to jump through so many mental and linguistic hoops to pander to 0.3% of the population?

@Tandora you are making absolutely no sense. You seem to be stating that a person who considers themselves trans ticking a box saying so is the same as ticking the box for some kind of horrible slur. Do you seriously think that it's unconscionable for a trans person to be expected to encounter the idea that not everyone believes the same as they do? That's nuts. Everyone needs to be capable of existing in the world understanding that the thoughts and beliefs in their head that aren't tied to physical provable fact are totally within their freedom to hold, but not within their freedom to impose on others. There's no problem at all with trans people believing what they do but forcing other people to act as if they share those beliefs when they don't is abhorent.

Indeed.

Don't worry, now that puberty blockers are banned [for 3 months] from being newly given to children, the diagnosis will change and 'gender identity' or 'gender distress' or 'gender incongruence' will disappear and a completely new diagnosis will pop up.

Changing the terms to avoid scruiting is part of the slippery nature of all this.

I don't believe that trans people are "just make believe" - they are real people who are valid and worthy of respect.
Their belief that there is some kind of invisible and undetectable essence or phenomenon that makes a male-bodied person who is trans to be totally different from a male-bodied person who isn't trans is clearly a belief. It's unprovable either way and humans have the capacity and right to all sorts of beliefs of this kind and a myriad of others as long as their holding such beliefs does no harm to others. Being capable of distinguishing between what thoughts in your head are based on facts and what are beliefs is a fundamental requirement for a rational being. Are you claiming that trans people are all so irrational because that doesn't seem a reasonable claim to make.

Certainly — I have trans friends who've talked about the issue and are gender critical. Everyone's different.

jeaux90 · Yesterday 09:56
@Echobelly some of us have a bit more personal integrity”

Or just have a different opinion to you?

I don't think it's a minor issue. The beliefs in question (whether gender differences are physical facts or social constructs) are the mainstay of widespread oppression of women, including rape, torture and execution currently rife in other countries, as well as pay gaps, domestic inequalities, educational inequalities here and worldwide...plus the negative effects on males (psychological health, for one).

This is probably the most important, serious issue there is. Pretending it's trivial is a horrifying dismissal of all the people fighting for freedoms, past and present.

It maybe widely accepted but its not accepted by all.

like who?
Transexuals (yes they still use the old term.)
Drag queens.
Cross dressers
Transvestites

The definition has become so "inclusive" as to be a complete nonsense.

So if someone has their pronouns in their email signature or declares it elsewhere how are the rest of the world supposed to remember?

I worked with a man who wanted people to use the pronoun "they". No problem. If you remember. In this instance I slipped up a few times because, being old fashioned, I've always referred to men as "he". When I realised that had happened with this chap I apologised and we had a good chat about how language changes.

But if I'd never met someone and called that person "him" I would hope I would get a polite correction rather than a complaint to HR.

MYOB would be my preferred response!

It's worth noting, that if you only have a question that says 'sex- male or female' it would not be answered biologically correctly by a lot of trans etc people.

The alternative would be transwomen marking themselves as female and being treated as such. In statistics and care plans etc.

To add the question of 'is your gender different to the sex you're born with' encapsulates anyone who sees themselves as another gender. Some people like that don't identify as trans, they might be non binary etc. so you couldn't just say 'are you trans' as it's still not inclusive enough.

There's loads of questions on forms where you just put 'no' or refuse the answer. It shouldn't be seen as an insult to any one group.

The alternative would be transwomen marking themselves as female and being treated as such. In statistics and care plans etc.

Are these questions compulsory then ? Is anyone checking ? Suppose I feel black for a day and answer as such, and then white traveller the next and answer as such ? What's the penalty ?

Self identification is all very well for the feelz. It's fuck all use for grown up planning. As the company that repurposed a toilet as a litter tray for furries found out to their cost.

But they could do that & still include a ‘no gender identity’ option in the question.

But they could do that & still include a ‘no gender identity’ option in the question

yes they could…its what the majority of posters are asking for, seems to be a bit too difficult though

@EmpressaurusDeiGatti yeah, you're not wrong there.

Here’s the reply from the charity:

“We appreciate that this question may bring some discomfort for you, however due to our funding rules it is a question that needs to be answered.

Our funders removed feed all of our enrolment form questions in to us for enrolling our customers, and it is a requirement for us to know, as an education provider, the legal gender of our learners. Without a completed enrolment form we will not be able to enrol you on to our program and access this funding for you.

I apologise for this and do understand your query.

If you have any further queries please do let us know.”

I’m not sure if I should challenge it further, and if so what should I say.

Obviously it’d be easier just not to bother doing the course with this charity.

But surely they’re being discriminatory by not proving an option to give a gender critical answer to the gender question on their registration form.

I'd query it again and tell them they're not being inclusive if you can only access help with gender ideology. Also remember Maya Forstater ,gender critical beliefs are worthy of respect in a democratic society. WORIADS

What nonsense is 'legal gender' if you can self declare any old gender you want?

What they have sent makes no grammatical sense either. I dont think they do understand your query at all

That’s a nonsense response highlighting that they don’t understand it either

I’d assume their funders are asking to record things under the protected characteristics of the equality act

id write back citing the protected characteristics and asking where ‘legal gender’ fits with this

That's a very polite and long-winded "no"

Feel free to carry on emailing them but you aren't gonna get anywhere.

So tick whichever box and do the course or find something else

This. Also possibly find out who the funders are and ask rhem direct. At that point it might be worth contacting Sex Matters about the legality of the funder requiring the information and potentially witholding funding?

I think I can say that the three funders listed on the email are the government’s Education and Skills Funding Agency, the local council, and a trade association.

Yes dept of education and the local authority are required to record data under the protected characteristics listed in the equality act

other MN have found that when they point out that the protected characteristics in the equality act are sex and gender reassignment and that you can’t unilaterally reword the law they tend to amend them

Potential discrimination aside, they can't ask for information relating to protected characteristics, or other special category personal data, unless they have made clear in advance why they need the information and how it will be used. If they just dropped a mandatory question without doing so then they are likely in breach of GDPR.

the legal gender of our learners.

What the fuck is that when it's at home ?