To complain about “gender identity” question on a registration form

[Manhere2024]

Man here. I just tried to fill in a form sent out by a charity, but one of the questions was:

“Is your gender identity the same as the gender you were assigned at birth?”

I tried ignoring it, but it’s not possible to submit the form without answering this question.

So I emailed them saying that I don’t believe in gender identity theory, & it’s discriminatory for them not to give an option for those of us who are gender critical. I have asked if they can change the form, or handle my registration in another way.

I think they’ll be surprised, and perhaps I’ve embarrassed myself. But I won’t go along with something I consider to be harmful and wrong.

AIBU? What will likely happen next?

Yes nutmeg

and also to differentiate between species

there are currently 3 males in my house, how many are human and how many are not human

if i used the words, men or toms or dogs then posters could answer the question

They want or need to collect gender data to see how many trans people are accessing their service. Loads of charities and government bodies now ask this. It's partly as the original sex/gender question is not adequate as it wouldn't capture, for example, a transwoman marking themselves as female or trans man saying they're male. They will probably write back an explanation about trying to cater for all gender identities. Of course it's fine not to answer that question but I wouldn't say it was useless.

So just ask "do you identify as transgender" which people who don't believe in structuring society according to how well one conforms to sexist stereotypes can just tick "no". As can those who do believe in it but categorise thenselves as not trans.

It's the way that the form gives you no option but to go along with a belief you don't share that is the problem.

That would be completely unhelpful to the people analysing the data. What people want to know is whether you are trans or not, not what your ideological beliefs about gender are

So why not just ask a straightforward question? Why couch it in terms that makes a belief in Gender Ideology mandatory in order to respond?

OP. Surely there’s a “prefer not to say” box. Just tick that.

If you'd read the OP properly you would know that there wasn't such an option. However, prefer not to say still implies that you believe in such a thing as gender identity.

They want or need to collect gender data to see how many trans people are accessing their service

absolutely

but people think there should be an answer for ‘no gender’

What opus said…

Omg after a shitty shift at work you have made me LOL.
Your post sums it up.
I work in maternity so you can only imagine what's going on in that section 🤐

No, ‘they’ haven’t made me uncomfortable. Cis is just a term.

No, ‘they’ haven’t made me uncomfortable. Cis is just a term.

A loaded term one which reduces you to a subset of your sex class, diminish yourself in favour of men, fabulous.

Rubbish.

Good for you for standing up to this BS OP. It needs to be called out for what it is and the more people that are brave enough to do so, the better.

Well no. Why do we need 'cos' to differentiate?

No it isn’t. It’s the watering down of my identity as a biologically born woman. I don’t identify as cis and find it extremely offensive.

Apologies I completely picked up your original post wrong. Yes that makes sense. Surely then they should have another box to say (and sincere apologies if my terminology is wrong) non binary? Or genuinely what is the most inclusive way?

Non-binary is a gender identity too. What we need is a box to say ‘no gender’, for people who refuse to subscribe to the concept. ‘Other’ or ‘Prefer not to say’ don’t work because that implies that you still identify as a gender of some sort.

If forced to pick one I would go for something exotic sounding like astrogender and have pronouns star/comet.

Yes, that's what the OP was saying originally and wrote to the charity suggesting it, I believe.

I think a 'not applicable' would suffice, or simply making the question optional for those who feel gender identities are important to them, rather than compulsory for all.

I just meant that the charity is making access difficult for people who don't want to answer questions about gender identity, as the form doesn't allow it. Hopefully inadvertently and they'll change it after reading OP's complaint.

I don’t know. Trans people don’t all have one hive mind, and I don’t have the manual for it. It might very well be the case that some trans people have gender critical beliefs.

That would depend on which trans person that you ask
nah it’s a very widely accepted definition.

it also doesn't include many of those under the trans umbrella
like who?

But many (most?) trans people dont “identify as transgender”, they simply are transgender (by virtue of having a gender diff from their sex registered at birth), so they would not tick that box, they would tick the “female” or “male” box, as that’s how they identify.

It's the way that the form gives you no option but to go along with a belief you don't share that is the problem.

then just tick “prefer not to say”, in the same way that you can if you don’t believe in sexuality or find the question too personal or offensive in some other way. Thats what the “prefer not to say” box is for.

@Tandora do you think atheists would be happy if the "religion" box in equalities monitoring forms just said Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Prefer Not to Say?

I bet you know a few atheists IRL - why not ask them how they would feel about that?

If you can't see how offensive that suggestion is I don't think I can help you.

Of course if it's just the word "Identify" you object to it could be "Do you consider yourself to be transgender" just like disability questions are often phrased as "Do you consider yourself to be disabled" because different people feel differently about the same condition. Your response shows you are clearly not getting it - organisations that deal with the general public need to accommodate all of the public, not just the ones that agree with the mindset of the person composing the application forms, and shouldn't be assuming or confirming any particular belief structure.

It doesn't take much basic intelligence to see the difference. As a theoretical example removed from the specifics of this particular issue to establish the general principle:
Do you consider that you have ascended to a higher plane of existence than mere humanity
Vs
Have you ascended to a higher plane of existence than mere humanity.

The former establishes that someone has a particular belief that is important to them. In many contexts this is useful information.
The latter is worded from a place of belief that some people can so ascend and total assumption that all people answering share that belief, and people who tick "no" are categorising themselves as inferior to those who tick "yes".

Or similarly - "Is your Aura green or yellow" as an example where there's no implication of inferior/superior

Obviously according to the people who share these beliefs, their status is as you say that they "simply are" that thing they believe in. However no one gets to impose their beliefs on another - so those who don't share those beliefs don't need to agree that they "simply are" the status accorded by that belief system.

I think they'll be relieved someone like you self selected out of whatever you were trying to register for.

At worst, you're a bigot. At best, you're too stubborn and petty to put aside minor disagreements for your wider aim. Not attractive qualities to anyone except those who are the same themselves.

How come the tiny % of ppl who insist they have an undefinable inner gender identity are never asked to put that aside for the wider good and to stop forcing their way into single sex spaces where they don’t belong?

Obviously according to the people who share these beliefs, their status is as you say that they "simply are" that thing they believe in. However no one gets to impose their beliefs on another

Right. So why do you get to impose your beliefs (that trans people are just make believe ) on the rest of us?

Even if you believe that what trans people say about their gender is just “a belief” the fact is what they “believe” is that they are male or female - so those are the boxes they would tick.

what makes them trans is the fact the fact that (what they “believe about”) their gender (how they identify) is different to their sex registered at birth.

If it we take your religion analogy seriously, it would be like saying Christian’s have to start ticking a box that says “narrow minded twat” because that’s what some atheists think they really are. Or all non Muslims should tick “kafir” (from a different perspective) etc etc. or do you accept that religious people are allowed to define their religion for themselves?

You are covered by this question, without bringing your beliefs about gender identity into it.
what you know/ understand about who you are is that you are “a woman” (“woman= exactly the same as adult human female”). This corresponds / aligns with your sex registered at birth (female/ woman).

I think they'll be relieved someone like you self selected out of whatever you were trying to register for.

At worst, you're a bigot. At best, you're too stubborn and petty to put aside minor disagreements for your wider aim. Not attractive qualities to anyone except those who are the same themselves.

over the last few years we have, rightly or wrongly, amended may of our forms in state institutions to be more inclusive of people who have ‘a gender’

i assume you would have said the exact same thing to those transpeople who wanted to fill these forms in with what they feel is the correct information as its the same thing in reverse

all posters are saying on here is that they would like the forms to reflect what they feel the correct information for them is

so at worst you are the bigot, at best you are a hypocrite