DP called me a middle class racist

[Whoswhoof]

Just now. Discussing the upcoming election. Both always voted labour. I said I’m voting Tory in the upcoming GE for a multitude of reasons, some of which come under the bracket of gender identity, kids sex ed, general tightening of illegal immigration, not taxing private schools. I explained you kind of just have to vote for the party that most aligns with your beliefs as you’re never going to agree with all of them (I don’t agree with a lot of Tory policies, but the ones that are important to me are relevant)

DP then jokes “So you’re a middle class racist now!” Then says only joking. DP will be voting labour.

Aibu to think this is quite out of order?

edited for typo!

Of course it’s theoretically possible for someone to think Badenoch is an incredible woman and potential leader and be racist about another - of course they may well recognise her privilege as being similar to their own, in theory.
We have to accept there will be some bias and prejudice in all parties.

However you cunningly did not answer why Labour have failed on this front so spectacularly for decades, and yet you still support them 🤷🏼‍♀️ I find that perplexing and unusual - yes.

You check out of the discussion to avoid having to answer I notice.

I don’t think PP was talking about workers already living in the UK or suggesting to do away with the things on their list.
I think they just listed potential reasons why people might want to move to the UK, in response to another poster.

I agree. Now we have got to the 'Owen Jones 'My grandmother was a match girl' conveniently forgetting that his parents were University professors phase where for many urban elites, they are second or third generation University educated, they talk about the origins of the Labour movement and the working classes, and are then surprised that many of the Working Class, and many people from Immigrant communities, are socially conservative, because they don't actually know that many.

Main thing though is that the total number on jobseeker benefits is around 1 million....

Yet there's only 916,000 job vacancies...

I agree with the rest of your post, everyone pays VAT through simply buying food, clothing and so on, but I don’t get the job seeker/ job vacancies argument.
So there aren’t quite enough jobs available for everyone who is a job seeker (although 916.000 is quite a big chunk out of one million), and that’s the reason the 916.000 (or 800.000, or at least ~500.000-700.000 of the available vacancies can’t be filled?

So there aren’t quite enough jobs available for everyone who is a job seeker (although 916.000 is quite a big chunk out of one million), and that’s the reason the 916.000 (or 800.000, or at least ~500.000-700.000 of the available vacancies can’t be filled?

That's actually not a question that has a simple answer.

I work in a mental health Trust. We absolutely struggle to fill vacancies, for a variety of reasons:
Cost of living to live at a commutable distance from work: we're in Cambridge, and pay at Band 5 and 6 doesn't go far in terms of housing.
Lack of qualified people - too many have left, either for pastures greener in NZ, Australia and Canada, or back to the EU following Brexit.
Mismatch of pay rates and responsibility - Especially at band 2 and 3, people can get the same or more working in Lidl or Aldi, but without having the kind of responsibility where a mistake has an adverse impact on someone's life.

Beyond that there's also the issue that many of these jobs are zero hours and insecure, and because of the cost of childcare it becomes almost impossible for some people to accept them. If you can't reliably budget for what is coming in financially, you're screwed; and that is what jobs like these do. So people don't take them and I for one don't blame them.

It's a huge toxic mess that is not going to change until we rethink how we want to structure the society we live in.

I don't know why those jobs aren't being filled. Assume some are particularly niche and require specific skills that few people have?

I'd guess a lot of the others have excessively picky employers, who overlook applicants with career gaps (which rules out many unemployed people) or discriminate in some other way (age and disability discriminate is a big problem).

Perhaps to address the problem of unfilled jobs and unemployment, businesses should be given a certain amount of time to find someone and if they haven't been able to they have to then take someone sent by the local jobcentre? Also encourage and support businesses to provide on the job training.

Probably also lots might be unwilling to provide training on the job and want someone already experienced.

Guessing some, maybe many are only part-time or temporary, which you could say is better than nothing but it does mean whoever does the job is likely to still need benefits (although lots of people only need part-time or temporary work, so perhaps that's not the biggest issue around why the job is unfilled).

Where the jobs are is probably a big issue. Are they in areas of high housing unaffordability?

That people who support Badenoch may still be racist but may see Badenoch as an exception because she shares and promotes their values. It also allows them to continue in their racism because they can point to this so-called diversity as proof of not being racist. It’s a common strategy. They all get something out of it

So you are saying that whatever Conservative members do with regard to a black Conservative female MP, they are racist? If they don't vote for her they are racist, if they do vote for her it's because they are secretly racist but vote for her because it makes them look like they are not racist? Got it. 🙄

Meanwhile Labour plod on with an endless succession of white middle class male leaders but are neither racist nor misogynist?

Yes this - Brexit really shone a light on this.

Well, don't worry. Nigel Farage sayshe is prepared to take over leadership of the Tory party after the election. How about that then? He claims he has a lot of support. Snake oil salesmen a speciality, first Johnson, now Farage? We'll have a grotesque on both sides of the Atlantic. A perfectly matched pair.

That will not happen however much Nige wants it too.

That is extremely low considering there are 12.6 million people claiming the state pension and 12.7 million children under 16! Are there really that many pensioners and children working?

The poster is talking about illegal immigration
UK Support for Ukrainians has nothing to do with illegal immigration…..obviously

Of course it doesn’t entitle them to come to the U.K. but it is a reason why they might come to the U.K. @Whoswhoof asked why they decide to come to the U.K. and these are some of the reasons.

No.
The 9.2million are ages 16-64 not children or pensioners.

Tory 'austerity' cut the asylum system to the bone, meaning that claims take forever to be processed. If people coming here to claim asylum knew their claims would be assessed withing three months, there would be very little inncentive for people without a valid claim to come here.

People coming here to work fill a vital need. We can't fill the posts in the NHS or in social services without labour from other countries. If you ever need carers, you will struggle if immigration is cut as much as the Tories want.

Fees from overseas students keep our universities afloat.

What we need is proper funding to ensure that where we have immigrant communities, proper services are provided - enough schools, GP practices, dentists, housing etc. Currently, governments use the excuse of high numbers of immigrants to cover up the fact that they are not funding these vital services properly.

Do I believe in unrestricted immigration? No, I don't. But I believe in welcoming people here to have the skills and expertise we need. We'll be up sh*t creek without them.

The Tories have been in power for 14 years. During that time, NHS waiting lists have shot up, the waiting time in A&E is critical, we don't have enough GPs or dentists, the care system is falling apart, our classrooms are rammed, our rivers are full of shit and our cities, especially in poorer areas, and wrecked. Why do you want to give them a chance to do more damage?

@DontWheeshtMe I have posted the breakdown of that 9.2 million - it isn't as simple as 9.2 million people who are instantly available for work. Failing to acknowledge that and simplistically posting the headline number isn't a good look.

Does it include students? There's about 1 million people on job seekers and around 2.5 million unable to work because of illness or disability. Guessing some of the remaining 4 or 5 million are carers (who save the state a lot of money by reducing use of the social care system).

I was responding to a poster who thought the 9.2 million were children and pensioners.

According to data from poverty and older people's organisations, the poorest age group in the UK are people aged 60-64. I wonder if part of the reason why is employer age discrimination? It's known that people over 50 face a lot of age discrimination when job hunting. This is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Some will be households with two adults and one not working. Usually with children of all ages. That non working person is deemed economically inactive. For example.

So SAHP are classed as 'economically inactive' (I think it's an inaccurate term because everyone is economically active, whether in paid employment or not), even when they're not claiming benefits.

It's easy to see how a headline can be misleading. People will see a report saying 9.2 million economically inactive people and some seeing that will think everyone included in that figure is on benefits or unemployed, and might be inclined to think 'lots of scroungers'. A closer look would show that there's fewer job vacancies than jobseekers, some 'economically inactive' are unable to work, some are carers, and some are SAHP with a high earning partner. Perhaps students are also included in the 9.2 million figure?

Well, if that household can manage on one person's income without claiming benefits then no member of it should be forced to work. People are allowed to make choices. Hence the need to acknowledge that the 9.2 million is not a homogeneous mass of people who are a drain on the state and able to walk instantly into a job.

I didn’t say everyone wanted to move to the UK though.
My point was that just because someone wants to move to a particular country (like it was the case for my own family) doesn’t automatically mean they can just do it.
I’m sure lots of English speaking people would quite like to move to Australia for example (there was a thread about it on here the other day), that doesn’t mean Australia will let everyone in.
Having some knowledge of the language and maybe some relatives already living there doesn’t necessarily entitle you to access to a particular country.
I definitely don’t think that immigrants in general want to bypass all other EU countries and come to the UK.
I know that there are European countries with higher immigration numbers than the UK, but there are also countries with lower numbers.
The fact that other countries might be in a similar situation doesn’t make irregular migration less of an issue. Places like Germany certainly have their problems.

Of course. As are people who retire early and live off their savings…again classed as economically inactive.

However that family ie my example, can claim benefits ( if they fall within the criteria of salary, savings etc.)

Germany have recently made new proposals to limit desirability for illegal immigrants.