DP called me a middle class racist

[Whoswhoof]

Just now. Discussing the upcoming election. Both always voted labour. I said I’m voting Tory in the upcoming GE for a multitude of reasons, some of which come under the bracket of gender identity, kids sex ed, general tightening of illegal immigration, not taxing private schools. I explained you kind of just have to vote for the party that most aligns with your beliefs as you’re never going to agree with all of them (I don’t agree with a lot of Tory policies, but the ones that are important to me are relevant)

DP then jokes “So you’re a middle class racist now!” Then says only joking. DP will be voting labour.

Aibu to think this is quite out of order?

edited for typo!

You can’t get past the fact that someone has views and priorities different to yours?
I wouldn’t vote Tory, but I can accept that not everyone sees everything like I do.

That’s obviously not true. Labour voters, and immigrants and trans people are routinely mocked and excoriated here on mumsnet as “thick” “ignorant” lazy, perverted, etc…etc…etc… there are attacks on Labour every day from the feminism board on the grounds that labour “won’t “ or “can’t “ correctly define “what a woman is.”

I agree with you about this. There’s a left wing’ that’s patronising and racist in different ways to the ‘immigrants’ stuff from the right but just as damaging.

I think maybe it comes a history of trying to think about other cultures and being fundamentally unable to due to lack of actual experience - growing up in a bubble of white middle class people who love to talk the talk but have no idea of black and brown people’s real lives. I hope that era is ending.

Tories though I don’t think it’s that they have any broader a world view. I just don’t think they ever cared about the experiences of anyone except the wealthy white bubble. So they don’t mind if someone turns up who fits into their worldview who happens to be black or brown. For them, it only matters that ideologically the person agrees with them. But you can guarantee they won’t be (and we’ve seen they won’t be) trying to help or understand anyone in society who isn’t like them. That, to them, is a threat.

I do think labour are fucking up by not actually listening to and involving people of colour in the party. The dismissal of Muslim voices is insane.

Not necessarily, the political centre was largely pro-EU the Leave sentiment came not just from the right but also from those furthest to the Left. One of the reasons that Labour is still resented by some in the centre-left for not moving on from the Corbyn interlude.

Brexit brought a number of previously insignificant issues to the fore, and may have demonstrated that tribalism and the notion of a Red Wall in the first place was rather misleading. Blow the dog whistle enough on a single issue such as immigration and unsurprisingly you can switch voters from one apparent wing of politics to the other without much difficulty.

Tories though I don’t think it’s that they have any broader a world view. I just don’t think they ever cared about the experiences of anyone except the wealthy white bubble. So they don’t mind if someone turns up who fits into their worldview who happens to be black or brown. For them, it only matters that ideologically the person agrees with them.

Yes I absolutely think this is it. This, I think also applies to women. As long as a woman thinks in the Tory way, then they can absolutely be leader.
I do think labour are fucking up by not actually listening to and involving people of colour in the party. The dismissal of Muslim voices is insane.
The thing is, again with this, the Muslim voices they have long listened to have been the male fundamentalist Muslim voices- people like Lutfer Rahman who gerrymandering votes by taking postal votes from Muslim women. Are they listening to the huge numbers of moderate/secular Muslims, or just men who behave in the way they think Muslims are like? Are they listening to secular Muslims who don't want their children to be intimidated in school by religious zealots? Many people whos families had to claim asylum to escape these people, and then alarmingly find them standing outside their childs school and meaning their child now doesn't have a teacher because no one wants to work there? Fundamentalist Islam, like fundamentalists of all religions, is hard/far right ideologically. I think and hope most of these people have gone to the Greens.

YABU to be voting for a party with no moral compass whatsoever and yes, if I were related to you - and you'd been brought up on a council estate (as I have) and knew what it was like to be poor (as I do) - nothing you said could ever make me understand your choice.

We already pay France a huge amount of money to help with this issue, they don’t want asylum seekers there and practically help them into the boats. They will take Starmer’s money, laugh, and carry on.

I give OH a bit of light hearted gip about voting Tory, which she does sometimes. She takes it as a joke though because she's not touchy about being called a middle class racist, because, you know, she isn't

If posted the list of Tory misdeeds over here, it would fill the thread. Don't play dumb

Genuinely no idea what you are talking about now, sorry. And stop with the silly insults and insinuations. We both know what you were getting at.

I agree with previous posters about the problem of tribalism. It's so unhelpful to simply shout "racist" or "thick" at people who vote differently. That's relevant for whichever political party someone votes for.

Insulting people does nothing to solve the actual problems of society, it certainly won't make people vote how you want (if anything it turns them away from your chosen party).

Insulting people who may vote for a different party to your preferred one and just saying 'Party A is Bad, so you're Bad if you don't vote for Party B' doesn't make things better, it doesn't solve the problems in society.

There's a need imo to focus more on voting For rather than voting Against. If anyone wants to try to persuade someone to vote a particular way, tell them (calmly without insults) why you think Party A or B is better.

You should vote for who you want. As should your DP.🤷‍♀️

Separately, concerns about the impact of mass immigration are not racist (addressing the issue is also not exactly a Tory policy, or at least it hasn't been under the Tory governments of the last 14 years, so don't know why anyone raising concerns is instantly labelled a Tory).

It's no different to the concerns raised in multiple threads about regional 'blow-ins' adding pressure on jobs, housing, and public services.

There are a minority of genuine bigots who don't like 'people not from here' (whether from abroad or regional within-UK 'blow-in') but the majority simply have legitimate concerns. It affects the less advantaged more than anyone else so if anything failing to address the issue is arguably a very right wing approach.

How it's addressed is the main thing. It does need to be discussed and the impact especially on the less advantaged shouldn't be dismissed, but of course any solutions need to be compassionate to all groups involved and avoid inciting hostility or hate. Solutions could be reducing immigration numbers, or massive investment in job and and training opportunities, social housing, and public services across the country. Or a mix of both those options. Whatever is decided, it absolutely isn't racist to simply raise the issues.

It's constant on here atm and often comes from those who can barely manage to type a sentence. The irony is not lost.

I frequent that board and have never seen any of this, not any of the other insults you have claimed happen on here. Sorry but the aggression and unpleasantness tends to flow one way and everyone can see it.

I simply am flabbergasted that people are still going to vote for these absolute criminals! So you are being extremely unreasonable in voting Tory. Christ this is depressing.

"at this point, I believe privatising the nhs would be beneficial for all."

No no no no no no no!!!! This can never be allowed to happen!! Ever!
I can't believe there are people that are so blinkered they think it is a good idea. Oh silly me, of course there are, they're the rich ones 🙄

If you’re voting Tory after everything they’ve come out with recently - you’re definitely unreasonable. I’m disabled and terrified about what else they’re going to come out with to discriminate against disabled people and make our lives more hell than they already are. Minorities should not have to live in fear of our government… and if you’re voting to contribute towards that then you’re just as messed up as them

"at this point, I believe privatising the nhs would be beneficial for all."

Yeah because that worked so well for everybody that uses water, electricity, railways…

The Conservative Party did not choose Brexit, the PEOPLE voted for it and chose it themselves. The press should carry some of the blame for this with all of the lies and rubbish that they printed, some people are not smart enough to see through it, the just believed all of the bullshit.

It’s terrifying because a lot of people who need to access their nhs appointments, treatments and prescriptions are those who are disabled or have severe medical issues. This often means they cannot work or can only work limited hours - resulting in limited income. So people saying privatise the nhs… how are these people expected to pay for their treatment when they’re often so unwell they cannot work? But people who are rich can pay out for a full body mri scan if they wish just for the sake of it, but poor people can just die because they cannot afford their treatment. Vile.

My mum has been unwell her entire life where she has basically every single health condition you can think of. If she doesn’t take her medication - she will die. If she doesn’t have access to her medical care - she will die. But she wouldn’t be able to afford it if she had to pay. I’m so sick of people who are rich having a say on ‘poor’ people’s care because it doesn’t affect them. It’s so disgusting and terrifying.

Not sure I could be with a tory voter at all

Completely understand your point, it's interesting to get your point of view on it and i completely agree. Just to raise a point though isn't the OP raising her ethnicity as sign that she's not racist playing Into that, sort of thinking? I can't possibly be racist as I'm mixed race? She clearly stated she raised her heritage as she assumed she would be labelled racist.

I think your completely on point though, people do look at people of colour and think how can you possibly be racist and discriminatory, when you know what it's like to be the victim of it. Never the less it is stereotyping and I think it's a lesson for everyone myself included.

For the record I don't think OP's opinions on the boats is racist though, I just don't think the tories have the right answer to solve the issue.

She did, it was wrong but she removed it and apologised doesn't make it right but if we gave up on everyone that made a mistake how will anyone learn and be rehabilitated?

Someone's got to

It really isn't.

Typically the kind of economic right you are talking about things that in balance, it's better for individuals to control more of their money directly. And that economic productivity is very important to propel having enough money.

The left tend to weigh things towards higher taxes and more services, but that also means that individual people and families have to accept the kind of services someone else in government have decided are the best.

In a place like the UK, there is typically still a ton of overlap, because both parties are overall pretty moderate, and so it's typically a matter of emphasis rather than a total difference in systems. You see a lot of LP people want a totally state run NHS for example, while lots of Tories would like a model more like France or Germany, but no one thinks it should just be a free for all.

Now, once you start to talk about conservatives, rather than people on the right, you bring some other principles into it, because the underpinnings values of political conservatism are around stability and differernt elements of society being mutually supportive, but not so much through high level state functions. This actually has a lot in common with certain types of leftism, for example both are likely to be suspicious of free trade.