DP called me a middle class racist

[Whoswhoof]

Just now. Discussing the upcoming election. Both always voted labour. I said I’m voting Tory in the upcoming GE for a multitude of reasons, some of which come under the bracket of gender identity, kids sex ed, general tightening of illegal immigration, not taxing private schools. I explained you kind of just have to vote for the party that most aligns with your beliefs as you’re never going to agree with all of them (I don’t agree with a lot of Tory policies, but the ones that are important to me are relevant)

DP then jokes “So you’re a middle class racist now!” Then says only joking. DP will be voting labour.

Aibu to think this is quite out of order?

edited for typo!

Isn't that a bit like saying that men can't try to improve things for women as how can they understand them never having experienced issues that affect women?

@Kandalama I'm sorry you got called a facial. Unfortunately every election MN gets an influx of posters who are clearly posting with a political agenda and trying to stir up hatred of the opposing party. It makes it an unpleasant place to be around. It will settle down to a large extent after the election is over.

Really?

They said the same about Corbyn’s proposals and then when COVID hit lo and behold a lot of those proposals were suddenly implemented.

Perfectly put.

I was just about to write similar. My kids are mixed race and have suffered some horrible racism as they've been growing up.
I also work in secondary school and the term is always being joked with and used in the wrong way (predominantly white school).

If you vote Tory you're showing you don't care about anyone else and the pain they've caused the country over the last 15 years. So not just racist, but classist, sexist, and overall lacking in moral fibre.

You're happy to pay more tax? Because if all kids from private schools go to state ones it will cost tax payer over 4 billion a year and getting rid of private healthcare will cost even more. Then additional losses in revenue as side effect of rich people leaving UK for better opportunities, taking their taxes, money and jobs with them.

Some ideas sound great until you do the maths and see bigger picture.

And if you like this kind of restriction on liberty in the name of "equality " then there are many countries that follow your values. Fancy North Korea?

Nobody will sort immigration because sorting immigration means shooting yourself in the foot. So many studies conducted have shown again and again that immigration is of net benefit to the UK. You need low skilled immigration to fill the gaps that won't be plugged by the local population (carers, fruit pickers, etc) and you need highly skilled immigrants for the same (have a look around your local hospital when you have a chance to see who your doctors and nurses are).

You cannot, e.g. reduce nhs waiting lists without importing more immigrant healthcare staff. It would take years and a lot of money to sufficiently upskill the local population. It is so much easier, quicker and cheaper to just allow immigrants to do it.

Most immigrants do speak the language even if you might have to forgive our accent and remember that we do have a pretty stringent points system for non eu immigrants that means unless you prove that you can support yourself you are not allowed into the country. Post brexit I have got no idea what the entry requirements are for eu immigrants or if by default they are vetted now using the same points system.

Note that I'm talking about legal immigrants as illegal immigrants and asylum seekers are such a tiny proportion in the uk that it's ridiculous to consider them a problem.

As someone who was raped in a toilet by a man (not trans - a man) I find it hard when people say they are voting tories because they know what a woman is.

As I said I was raped at 17 by a man in a toilet - but this doesn't stop me knowing that the tories have fucked women big time in the last 14 years. I am a teacher, a carer, a single mum ... everything is shit for women like me. If you are a single issue voter I guess you have had it easy the last few years or else you would be supporting all women - those to whom gender issues are way down the list of what is needed to survive

So what most parties do is implement populist policies that make them look as if they are dealing with immigrants without actually reducing the number of immigrants to appeal to racist voters. Theresa May was brilliant at this. Anyone remember her stint as home secretary?

Unfortunately, these policies do make the life of immigrants harder and more unpleasant besides also turning public opinion needlessly against us. Even more against us. Most of us are well established here and have made the uk our home and it's not bad enough to leave but the constant banging on about immigration is just enough to make our lives more unpleasant. What for? Why do people do this? Politicians obviously do it to gain votes but why do voters do it unless they are racist? Why do voters insist on pretending immigration is a massive problem when it really isn't if they aren't racist?

Most kids who are currently at private school will not go to state school. The kids who go to very expensive private schools will go to cheaper private schools if their parents can't afford them. That is what the head of our dc's private school just told us. She isn't worried. She literally said that yes, lots of families currently at the school will be negatively impacted but she isn't worried as the school will still get enough influx of other families. She obviously doesn't care about individual children but I suppose that is private school for you.

A lot of parents like us will just suck it up to avoid the disruption to our child's lives for as long as we can. It won't be easy but we are still of course hugely privileged to be able to afford to do so.

I'm an immigrant. I can completely understand why people are worried about uncontrolled immigration. Pressure on housing, healthcare, higher crime levels.
It's not racist to want to have immigration under control on such a small and popular Island.

The tactic of cancelling someone and distorting their views based on a little fragment of their opinion has become very popular in recent years and it's unhelpful and destructive to important discussions.

It also completely undermines real meaning of words like racism.

OP, it sounds to me like your husband, and maybe his family too, have invested some of their sense of identity in voting Labour. And he has swallowed the very common trope on the left that the main point of conservatism is a sort of Ayn Rand Me first attitude.

People like this struggle with the idea of voting as a practice of weighing up differernt policies and individuals and making what seems to be the better choice under current circumstances. They will always see it as a choice between good and evil. And they tend to reductively think of voting as race based.

I wonder if this is changing in the UK as it seems to be in the US, but I haven't seen any numbers on it.

In terms of looking at our situation in the long term, which it’s obvious Governments never seem to do, surely we should be educating more highly skilled people.
Im aware that Universities are now taking more Med students and nurses having been given the go ahead by the Government to increase numbers.
If this increases sufficiently with a requirement to stay for a period of time working in the nhs then ideally there will be no need to employ others from abroad in the long term.
In terms of care home staff and other jobs traditionally filled through immigration we have 9.2 million people who are economically inactive in this country. That’s a potentially huge workforce available to fill these roles. In the long run a policy to encourage a positive work ethic is surely a better way forward than choosing the easy way out by employing others to work for us.

You have quoted me but have not actually addressed any of my points. You have just reiterated the same old tropes that people use to justify their xenophobic views. I don't know if you are xenophobic but please note that just because you are an immigrant it doesn't mean that you can't hold xenophobic or racist views.

1. Immigration is not uncontrolled. Eu Immigration was but post brexit now isn't. Non eu Immigration has been controlled for many, many decades.

1. Immigrants don't massively add to the pressure on housing. They massively benefit healthcare in the uk and what is this nonsense about increased crime? Immigrants do not commit more crimes. Poverty does and the net effect of immigration is to reduce poverty. None of your points are based on facts or even common sense.

The Windrush Scandal was under the Tories. Who you're intending to vote for to 'sort out' immigration - this is how they do it.

You are talking about very long term as the shortage is acute and it's significant. It will not be plugged in a few years. How many people are going to suffer and die due to lack of timely healthcare just so we can say that we have reduced immigration? What is the actual benefit of reducing immigration? And please don't tell me that you are a small, popular island that is full.

This is incorrect
Windrush people came here under a Labour Government in 1948.
It is under Labour at the time that they were not given full rights to remain here and full rights to the benefits of living in the UK

The scandal came to the for in 2017/18 and was subsequently dealt with by the Government at the time. The Conservatives.

I won't engage with anyone who resorts to "xenophobic" and "racist " name-calling when it's not justified at all. It's manipulative and based on thought distortion that people are usually not aware of so this will go in circles.

I know this toxic way of conversing became normalised in past years but I'm just too tired of it overtaking the media and now its even on here. It derails from productive discussion.

I agree this is long term.
However Governments have known about high birth rates in the 50s and 60s since the 50s and 60s. If Governments and I mean all Party’s looked to the future they could plan more effectively.
Its never too late to start now. Numbers in the medical profession are being increased and this needs to continue even if it means we have to wait. Plugging the gap now and for even 10years is still better than never bothering.

This isn’t necessarily about reducing immigration ( I appreciate others have been referring to this but I’m not ) it’s about educating our own workforce so we are more self sufficient.

I didn't call you a xenophobe or a racist and you are not conversing with me as you have not addressed a single point I have made. It is of course much easier to say that you won't address my points due to strawman arguments you have come up with rather than actually have a proper conversation about the things I have said.

Yes. I agree. I also think a lot of the problems that we have in the uk is because we are not self sufficient at all. Not because of the EU or anyone else but just because I assume it was easier to rely on others for not just people but also food and other goods. Being self sufficient requires long term policies some of which might not be popular in the short term so there is very little incentive there for populist.

Are you real. Yes it looks like you are only looking after your own interests so you would suit the Tory party. You and your friends with money can have your energy, education, healthcare, and the rest of society can just scrape the crumbs.

Not taxing education full stop is actually a left wing ideology. Many left wing countries don't tax private education. And the countries that ban private education are ones like Russia and North Korea.

Absolutely.
Building a country to be as self sufficient as possible means a lot of sacrifices from everyone.
Any Political Party that mentions huge personal sacrifices will end up on the back benches
And so it goes on and on and round and round in circles and we end up 50 odd years since high birth rates in the mess we are in now.

His family not speaking to you could very well be added into the plus column.