Fall out with Grandson

[LadySmurf]

Recently I was asked to look after my two grandsons 14 & 8. The 14yo can be a handful with his behaviour and language, but we had a lovely time together, I took them out for the day and they wanted to sleep over. The next morning, 14yo was stroppy and swearing - I asked him to stop and not talk like that. The 8yo said “Mum said if you’re naughty they’ll take away your Xbox for a week” well it was like a red rag. He started shouting and swearing at me - then he punched me in the stomach. I’m very sad and horrified to say, I smacked his face in a reactive moment. When his parents came, I explained what happened and said sorry to him. They said he would apologise the next day - but nothing.
They took him home and now a month on, I’ve not had any contact with him, only the rest of the family.
I saw him yesterday when I visited their house. I said hello and asked how he was? He ignored me and told his brother he hates me.
Its his birthday next week - I don’t feel like giving him a gift. should I still? AIBU?

@Bellaboo01

Keen to know your answer to mine and previous posters question - when could the grandma in question have used physical force to respond to being punched in the stomach by her teenage grandson? He punched her once and you say her reflexive slap was meeting violence with violence.

If he had punched her three times and she slapped him trying to get him to stop, would that have been acceptable? Or still meeting violence with violence?

What about if the grandfather had walked in on his wife being punched in the stomach, would it be unacceptable for him to use physical force to try to stop the grandson attacking his grandma?

A visceral, self defensive reflex to being attacked is not the same as an attack.

So I'm interested in your thoughts on the above.

If her grandson hadn't stopped, even if she got to her phone to call the police, at what point would it be acceptable for her to have attempted to fight back in order to get safe?

So @Bellaboo01 say if the grandmother punches her grandson in the stomach after verbally abusing and he slaps her back that’s wrong is it? Well it is but I wouldn’t blame him for doing so.

This is a grandmother who’s taken both grandsons out, paid for them for the day and then had them stay on a sleepover. Yes, probably the teenager (14) might not be pleased with all this but his words and behaviour are out of order. Even more so as his older relative is looking after him and treating him.

No she is not talking rubbish. Lots of people have said the same thing throughout the thread. In what circumstances would you deem it 'acceptable' for women to strike out/ retaliate/defend themselves against male violence? Never?

@Bellaboo01

Here we go again 🙄 with you and the rest of the other like minded male violence apologists excuser's for this type of thing

Is it a wonder violent teenage males and violent toxic abusive child men don't respect women and girls,

When we have individuals like yourself mimising and justifying and excusing a grandson punching his grandmother in the stomach ????

why is your brain power extremly limited in capacity to work effectively?

We have another male violence apologist on here again = male violence down player excuser for it enabler
Never mind @LadySmurf teenage grandson who could have the physique strength of young man and even if he has not,

You still insist on being judgemental about @LadySmurf action,
It's natural to want to protect yourself and also knee jerk reaction too,

Even the law of UK you are allowed to defend yourself protect oneself physically,

and by age 10 years you are consirdered to be aware enough in UK Law to know the difference between right and wrong,

Unless you are perceived to be mentally deficient faculties,
Which there is no evidence whatever on this mumsnet thread at all..

How would you have reacted if someone or a teenage male member of family punched your grandmother?

I suspose you would appease him give him placating peace offering 🫴 in some way and carry on with happy families charade ect

@LadySmurf
"How are male violence apologists captured 🤔 then"?

I wonder then

Two of our parents tried to have one of my colleagues charged with assault.

Colleague was unusually short. 15 yr old punched him. Colleague stretched out a hand to block the second punch.

In Scotland, children under 16 are seen by the Children’s Panel normally, not court.

My colleague was suspended, even though police said he hasd no case to answer.

The parents phoned a tabloid and he was doorstepped. Pic of him at his door all over the front page of a Sunday Paper.

Eventually allowed back to work but quit at the end of the academic year.

When the boy turned 16, police arrested him for taking cars without consent.

I honestly don't care if i am pissing you off.

I wouldnt hit a child who was in my care. EVER. FULLSTOP!

I am also not defending the child as clearly he needs help. The receiving (or not) of a birthday present here is the least of the issue. Fighting with Grandma can't be brushed under the carpet.

@User8646382 Absolutely spot on! Social workers, as a general rule, aren't fit to do the job. You only have to look at the myriad abuse cases where the child died, even after being checked on. And who were they let down by? The wooly hat brigade, as my dear colleague once said! And they always have an excuse - they didn't answer the door; the child was covered in chocolate; we can only do so much...
I have absolutely no faith in the social service system in the UK at all. We all know the sort, the "knit your own veg, grow your own yogurt" types. Most of them single virgins and living with an elderly parent. No clue about vulnerable children or family dynamics.
(And before anyone chelps up about my description of social workers, I have had many dealings with them in my working life and they were virtually all as I've described!)

Fighting with?

He assaulted her.

The 15 yr old who punched me in the stomach at work precipitated a miscarriage. I was trying to keep away from him and trying to protect my stomach.

An idiot from SACRO tried to persuade me to have a restorative meeting with the thug.

it’s just dawned on me that the other three victims - a teen male and two men - were not asked to meet.

Youth workers obviously think that women are mugs.

Your responses suggest that your mindset is the same.

@Bellaboo01

Fighting with Grandma can't be brushed under the carpet.
Here you go again... "fighting with" is a phrase that implies they are equally aggressors.

He didn't have a fight with her.

He attacked her and she responded with self defence.

He punched a woman in the stomach and as a reflex, due to her fight or flight instinct, without malice or anger etc, she defended herself by slapping her assailant.

That is not a fight.

It is not meeting violence with violence.

Interested as mentioned to know at what point n an attack it is acceptable for the victim to defend themselves using violence. One punch isn't enough in your opinion. Two punches? Three? When blood is drawn?

Attacking grandma. Not fighting her.

Soooo many questions But, i will try to answer to what i believe.

• None of us kids/family members/Our kids/siblings etc etc has ever hit or attacked a Grandparent.
• If i hit one of our parents or my children hit one of their Grandparents then there would be something very concerning occurring and it would be addressed. I'm not sure what as i would never have done it.
• My Dad was a boxer and i can guarantee you that he would never have laid a finger on any of us.
• FYI -- The law actually doesn't allow you to 'reserve the right to hit back harder'!
• I can assure you that in no way am i an enabler of male (or female) violence...quite the opposite.

Would love your thoughts on these questions, especially the last one, so I can try to understand where you're coming from.

@WearyAuldWumman

Just wanted to say I'm really sorry that some posters, one in particular, must be triggering awful memories. You did nothing wrong. You were a victim of male violence, no matter the age of the perpetrator. I'm so sorry for what you went through.

They fact that you don’t believe you’re an enabler tells us that you have a screaming lack of self awareness.

Thank you so much.

That is awful that happened to you - i'm so sorry to hear that. But, i wasn't responding to your case of abuse and being attacked by two 15 year olds and ending up in your misscarriage (which is awful).

I am responding to the OP who was punched by her Grandson who was 14 as he couldnt gameplay, she slapped him back and now is wondering whether to buy him a present for his birthday!

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/07/26/boy-who-pushed-bike-at-girl-causing-her-to-fall-off-dart-platform-to-avoid-detention/

A mother here in Ireland threatened to sue after her son's deliberate actions caused a young woman to fall under a train. She wanted to sue because her sons identity was released on social media. Imagine your son could have killed someone and that's what concerns you the most. He got off with it by the way. Dealt with by way of community sanctions.

the judge said he did not believe the boy intended for it to happen. “It was prankish behaviour, irresponsible behaviour,” said the judge. “But it is highly unlikely he anticipated what occurred.”

I wouldnt hit a child who was in my care. EVER. FULLSTOP

Bella boo, unless you are speaking about those who do not have the capacity to understand, and you are highly qualified and trained in restraining tactics, which I very much doubt, because you show your ignorance with every post, you are talking bullshit.
You would.
There is a point at which you would hit back/ attempt to shove them away forcibly to save yourself. A mistimed shove can be worse than a slap.
AND FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME THIS WAS NOT A CHILD! Can you not absorb that?
14 year old boys can evoke the fear and pain that a 5 year old cannot.

How do you know the whole backstory of Grandma and Grandson?

I was attacked by one.

He attacked another teen plus 2 other colleagues who came to my assistance. If I had fought back, would I have been in the wrong?

Horrible.

Is that because you would lose your job? You cannot equate that to a grandmother being punched by her grandson. It's nowhere near the same thing.

@Bellaboo01

How do you know the whole backstory of Grandma and Grandson?

Backstory? Did you not read the first post yourself?

She says: "He started shouting and swearing at me - then he punched me in the stomach. I’m very sad and horrified to say, I smacked his face in a reactive moment."

He shouted, swore and punched her in the stomach.

She smacked his face as a reaction to this.

It's literally there for you to read...

wearyauldwumman 🌻