Fall out with Grandson

[LadySmurf]

Recently I was asked to look after my two grandsons 14 & 8. The 14yo can be a handful with his behaviour and language, but we had a lovely time together, I took them out for the day and they wanted to sleep over. The next morning, 14yo was stroppy and swearing - I asked him to stop and not talk like that. The 8yo said “Mum said if you’re naughty they’ll take away your Xbox for a week” well it was like a red rag. He started shouting and swearing at me - then he punched me in the stomach. I’m very sad and horrified to say, I smacked his face in a reactive moment. When his parents came, I explained what happened and said sorry to him. They said he would apologise the next day - but nothing.
They took him home and now a month on, I’ve not had any contact with him, only the rest of the family.
I saw him yesterday when I visited their house. I said hello and asked how he was? He ignored me and told his brother he hates me.
Its his birthday next week - I don’t feel like giving him a gift. should I still? AIBU?

@Bellaboo01

It terrifies me that people with your stance on violence against an older woman (not that it would be better at any age really) punched in the stomach, could be raising boys. Or raising girls who will statistically be likely to be in a relationship with boys at some point.

It's so unsettling.

BUT, i can absolutely guarantee 100% you that i would never, ever have slapped him round the face.

@Bellaboo01

You have no idea how you would react when surprised with a punch to the stomach unexpectedly.

It's bizarre to say you know 100% that you wouldn't do something that is often an automatic response of our body, as self preservation when attacked. No anger, no thought, no premeditation is required. It's a reflex, just as an animal under attack will bite back as a reflex.

Your posts to a woman who has been assaulted are disgraceful.

Not sure i even understand what you are saying!? You are speaking rubbish!

You are concerned because i wouldn't be violent or allow someone to be violent against any child in my care?

I DO have an idea and I HAVE been in this situation many times and i take care of many venerable children who have experienced violence.

@Bellaboo01

You are concerned because i wouldn't be violent or allow someone to be violent against any child in my care?

I'm concerned about people who believe an act of automatic, reflexive self defence is the same as an attack.

I'm also concerned about people who respond to an upset grandmother who has been assaulted implying she is unsafe around children.

Because those people, perhaps without realising, are apologists for male violence against girls and women.

Have you seen what the average 14 year old boy looks like now? Size and strength wise? Versus a grandmother? To position him and her both as aggressors is bizarre.

@Bellaboo01

I HAVE been in this situation many times and i take care of many venerable children who have experienced violence.

That's even more concerning tbh.

The concern is because you seem utterly unconcerned about a violent teenage thug attacking an older woman without provocation. Punching her in the stomach!

Instead your response is to chastise the grandmother and ignore the violence leading to her frankly justifiable reaction.
Yes, it’s scary that someone with your views could be raising sons .

I'm not raising sons!! What makes you think that i am?

I HAVE been in this situation many times and i take care of many venerable children who have experienced violence.

Well, this nearly 15-year-old is the perpetrator of violence. He's not the victim. The OP is the victim, like those children you take care of. Do you chastise them too when they tell you they hit back after being punched? Or does only age matter here? You can't be an attacker until you are over 18, and you can't be a victim if you're a grandmother.

Maybe it depends on where you are parenting wise. If you have an aggressive teenage boy yourself you see it one way. Those of us with gentle teen girls see it quite another.

There's a third way of seeing it through the eyes of someone who has specificly worked with teens.ive worked with teens for over 35 years and I know when we get violent teens to our service, the same pattern of behaviour from their parents has been repeated over and over again.
I'm other words, do I blame the parents? I'd pretty much every single time to be honest.
I also believe things can be turned round both the child's behaviour and parenting skills but by the time a young person is a teen a lot of work needs to be done.

I said “could” 🙄; and was elaborating on a PPs post that it was worrying that someone with your views COULD be raising sons. We know nothing about you, but MUMSNET does tend to attract mothers.

If you have ever been unlucky enough to be really punched in the stomach by a man, you may just understand the visceral reaction.

The majority of 14 year old boys here tower over me and the shock and pain of that happening would be no different to that of a grown man punching me.

In normal circumstances, I would agree that hitting children is wrong.

However, so is hitting your grandmother.

It is telling that he, as @Theunamedcat said, chose to hit the woman instead of his brother.

Nice that he chose the person he perceived to be weakest or wouldn’t fight back.

And he did choose.

In the eyes of the law a fourteen year old boy is old enough to be held legally accountable for his actions. A punch to the stomach from a boy of this age to an older lady (or to anyone else for that matter) could have resulted in severe damage. The OP’s response wasn’t a matter of violence but a fight or flight response that’s inbuilt into us all. The thought that you would take the side of a violent boy who has just assaulted a woman is concerning on so many levels I don’t know where to start. As a poster upthread pointed out, his brother was present, and he chose to hit the person he perceived as weaker. This is an abuser in the making and if it’s not dealt with swiftly and severely, he’ll be a potential danger to every woman he encounters.

You don't know my views or what my experiences are.

I said i done agree with responding to Violence WITH Violence!

@Bellaboo01

I said i done agree with responding to Violence WITH Violence!

Fight or flight, non emotional, reflexive reactions are not the same category of violence though. Nowhere close.

The boy's action was purposeful, he was the aggressor, he hit to hurt in anger.

The grandma's action was a physical reflex, an immediate, visceral response with no thought or emotion behind it, just a panicked attempt at self defence. It's inbuilt into us as animals to respond that way when under attack.

The fact you're treating them as six of one, half a dozen of the other is bizarre. Even more so if you work with vulnerable people.

Bellaboo, I am trying to be nice here. Even though you are pissing me off.

You do not know how you would have reacted to a 14 year old male relative punching you in the stomach.
Quite agree you may have frozen, as would many people faced with violence from a loved one, and done nothing.
On the other hand, you may have hit him - hard.
Who started this 'responding to violence with violence is not the correct way'?
If a 14 year old youth attacks me, I reserve the right to hit back - harder.

@Bellaboo01

Are you honestly saying that if one of the vulnerable teens (a girl, let's say) you have previously cared for came to you and said they had been punched in the stomach by a vulnerable teen boy and as a reflex, without thinking or planning, they slapped him, you would tell her that violence is violence and she was morally wrong to do so?

You wouldn't explain that her reaction was self defence and something that is a fight or flight self preservation response to being attacked?

You wouldn't explain that she couldn't have known if he would continue punching her in the stomach and that her reaction was her body attempting to defend itself?

Again, it's concerning you have cared for vulnerable people (of any age) with such black and white thinking and lack of ability to consider the nuance of situations.

Another question for you - after how many punches to the stomach by their teenage grandson is it ok for a grandma to hit back in self defence? Or is it never ok and they should just accept their fate and be assaulted until the assailant decides to stop?

So if I am violently attacked, I cannot defend myself with violence, @Bellaboo01? What do you suggest I do - ask him nicely to stop attacking me?

How can anyone argue that the grandmother, who was punched in the stomach by a 14 year old boy, is as much in the wrong as he is?

Who started this 'responding to violence with violence is not the correct way'?

It’s been a gradual insidious mantra that has crept in over the past few decades. In schools, the child who hits back is told that they’re “just as bad” as their attacker because they joined in.

Those who espouse this nonsense seem to think that a sage and somber announcement of “Violence should never be met with violence” speaks for itself and requires no explanation or justification. It’s bollocks.

I'm not raising sons!! What makes you think that i am

Bellaboo, I hope you are not raising anyone. Your thinking is just as dangerous to girls or boys.
You are part of the problem.
Of course, we give leeway to those who mentally cannot understand, that is an entirely different matter to a boy in a teenage strop.

@Bellaboo01 is obviously a social worker. You can spot them a mile off - they are hopelessly naive and disconnected from reality. Very, very dangerous actually.

I’m sure most of us think deep down that a few more slaps to this kid’s bare backside at an earlier age would have made all the difference. It’s just not the done thing to say it on here. LOL.

@Bellaboo01 feignging shock at "hitting a child" is ridicuous in this instance. This isn't a little boy slapped for tantrumming, this is a male well on their way to full male, adult strength, who has taken that strenth and punched an older female relative in the stomach. An instinctive, reactive slap is nothing.

You're so keen to be right-on about "not hitting children" that you've just completely minimised quite serious male violence. You should be very ashamed.

@User8646382 Thanks so much for saying it and probably explains why @Bellaboo01 keeps seeing so many of these type behaviors repeated. A smack in time save nine

Well thank God for that at least.

The thinking you display in your posts is potentially very dangerous and damaging. As well as victim blaming. 'Responding to violence with violence' when all the violent intent was clearly only on one side?

I really have heard it all. What a deeply depressing thread this is.

Bellaboo you sound almost identical to the poster who posted that awful reply and coincidentally that person also claimed to work with children. Both usernames names have Bella in them coincidence?