To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

Neurodiverse isn't just autism though, so should they have advertised "ADHD friendly shows and "Dyslexia friendly shows" and "Bipolar friendly shows" and whatever else is covered by the term? Why should they pick out autism?

I'm autistic and it's pretty clear that "neurodiverse" is just a vague, meaningless term people use to virtue signal or feel special. Most people and places are still very autism-unfriendly and they don't care!

I mean I get it. My DD is ND and it's horrible when they're on edge or melting down but rethink 'fun'. Mine are far happier on a quiet cottage holiday in the countryside with places to climb a few rocks or trees and streams to splash in.

Also can I point out that there's no such thing as autism friendly suitable for all autistic people! Your dgd sounds fairly like my dd but we had to pull her from an autism specialist provider because she couldn't cope with the boisterous loud and frankly violent boys. She was mainstream educated with support from then on, with being educated separately (at school , private room) from 13 as noise was such an issue. I tried an autism friendly show once, disaster as the kids weren't sitting still and being quiet that stressed her out - adult shows with ear defenders worked for us, yes you'll see her performing in them too, adult now, professionally

It’s butlins in half term - of course it’s going to be chaos!

Some things are just not going to be suitable for some people with specific disabilities. If you don't have great mobility, for example, you can't go to the top of the Eiffel tower. As others have said, provisions for disabilities, and especially ones like autism and ADHD, are fairly new, and the spectrum is so varied - there will be some ND children that enjoy it, but also some that wouldn't cope with it at all. Hopefully better provision is something that they are looking at.

Have you considered getting in touch with Butlins about it? I would suggest, rather than complaining, be inquisitive and ask about if they are looking into creating a more ND-friendly environment. Tell them how you feel your experience could be improved, rather than on what was wrong in the first place - it's more likely to be well received, rven if they don't act on it.

Agree.

What about wheelchair friendly? Or a show suitable for hearing impaired children? Or sight impaired?

I know people who take their neurodiverse kids with send to Butlins because they love the busyness and nosiness of the shows.

And how many people do you think with autism are at Butlins at anyone time? You will get a "quiet" show and less lights but many people will still turn up.

Like everything in life somethings will suit some people and not others. It's not solely based on being NT or ND.

You have to choose activities that suit what you can manage.

And I say that as a parent of an autistic teen who also has a physical disability.

@norfolkbroadd

Name for me some of the entitled disabled stuff you see please. If you see it a lot you should have no problem listing it.

I took part in a discussion here, not a challenge.

I think an honest review saying "not suitable for those who don't enjoy crowds / noise" is fair. That's the point of a review, surely.

"Autism Friendly" is ableist shite to stop people with asd ruining the experience for NT people

Comparing Butlins with a cinema is like comparing apples and pears. There are cinemas in every town and they have some showings of films where the environment is adapted for people who struggle with noise and high energy.

Butlins is completely different and its premise is high energy and noise.

I think an honest review saying "not suitable for those who don't enjoy crowds / noise" is fair. That's the point of a review, surely.

Probably only useful for someone living under a rock who's never heard of a Butlins 🤣

Surely it's on you to research it before booking and paying?

You can't just expect things to be done the way you wish for it to be done!

I think this is a very sensible approach, OP. It's understanding and appreciating who your GD is and what her interests are. And consider how lucky you are in that you can completely give the soft play and crowded pools a miss and enjoy some lovely natural settings with her.

Well yeah, but I imagine that there are other people - such as grandparents in OP's situation who are out of the little kid stage - who just underestimate how "in your face" it can be.

They probably know….

I think it is a lesson learned for you! It can be hard for parents/carers with ND children - especially if queueing/ loud noises etc are a trigger and on holiday. But sometimes the onus is on you to appease/ minimise triggers, yes society / companies can do their parts.

But 11 o clock is one of the busiest swim times - first session or late afternoon would be better! Also changing rooms are loud - so go slightly later than start time.

Things won't run to time so have snacks, fidgets, iPad etc to help with the waiting!

Soft play if busy it's not safe for them to be in the small soft play with babies.

I think most people would associate butlins with crowds & noise to be honest.

We just stayed at a Butlins. All of us, adults and children, are autistic and fans of quiet. We were very impressed with their acceptance of neurodivergence.

No one looked at my mute child oddly, no one had a problem with them stimming visibly, with their extremely BD clothing choices, with being barefoot on the fairground rides, with their food issues - I've genuinely never encountered such accepting staff anywhere.

But I didn't force them into environments that are clearly not to their choice. Would you take a vegan into a steak restaurant and complain about the smell of meat? It's designed to be loud and busy, that's their whole atmosphere and it is intentional, it appeals to their target market. That's why the music is ear splitting at breakfast time, and why they crowd everyone into a small space instead of spreading you out: they're creating a specific atmosphere that their target market likes. If that's not you then it's not!

Ffs. It's the equivalent of complaining a library isn't loud enough. Read reviews before you choose to go.

It's not cheap

For anyone reading this you ask guest services for a band so you don't queue for swimming if your child can't queue due to a disability.

This is a bit of an odd thing to say. Neurodiversity doesn’t disappear at 18. Why does it make a difference if it’s primarily aimed at children?

Is that at all the Butlins? I thought it was only at Bognor Regis, I’ve not seen them used at other butlins

Yes at Bognor you can use them for other things too , but just swimming at minehead and Skegness.

A country weekend in the Cotswolds with spring baby animals and calm and peaceful surroundings would have been far better for your toddler. Butlins is hell in earth for NT children - for many it is too much. Next time, try somewhere serene and calming by the sea or in the country.