To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

so you supposedly work in the area but are happy to discount the lived experiences of many?

this thread has shown (as anyone working in the area should know) that autism is such a wide spectrum that what one person needs can be the polar opposite of what another needs. Many people have said Butlins is great for them/their young person with Autism, many others have said it isn’t for them.

What's the reason you are looking forward to showing colleagues?
Should be obvious, but because the display of ignorance on here is fascinating... and very much validates the importance of out work.

you have dismissed the voices of actual autistic people because you think you know/are better
Spolier alert... I'm autistic 🙄 yes, an 'actual' autistic person.

Erm, obviously. Anyone who thinks all autistic people are the same are incredibly ignorant.

It's worse that you are autistic. It's hard enough trying to be heard.

Okay 🙄 it's not like my research gives autistic people a voice or anything ...

Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that all autistic children would hate Butlins (was v clear about that up thread but it’s gone astray) but there are significant numbers that have openly said they don’t and from the number of autistic children I know there would be a significant proportion would never enjoy it. People like your child are the reason why it’s important to have some adaptations but for many there couldn’t ever be enough adaptations to make it a comfortable experience.

@surreygirl1987

Okay 🙄 it's not like my research gives autistic people a voice or anything ...

Ah, so autistic people can have a voice through your research, just not their own experiences?

I booked a potholing weekend, but was dismayed that my kids would be in confined spaces because, you see, they're claustrophobic so I think they should cater for them exclusively. Sounds ludicrous, doesn't it?

Same picture though.
No assessment or forethought from the adults who did nothing to make any reasonable adjustments, yet sit back and complain a noisy kids holiday camp wasn't set up to cater to their needs (because they hadn't made anybody aware of them in the first place)
The entitlement is astonishing.

We were in Scotland a couple years ago where there was a charity event to take someone up Ben Nevis in a specially constructed wheelchair .

Not sure it actually happened though, because we got chatting to one of the volunteer support team. Due to weather conditions, they wanted to change the day of the ascent, but the person was having a hissy fit, saying it had to be on said day, and the crew around him didn’t support this.

I think people are taking it to extremes. Granted you can’t expect a holiday like butlins to be a quiet soothing holiday destination, but there could be a middle ground. Some activities could be offered for neurodiverse children, like they did at Hoburne such as the wet and wild with reduced music. This means children can join in some activities and not others which they may find overstimulating.

700k people in the uk are autistic and no its not unreasonable to expect reasonable adjustments to be made especially with the disability act 2010

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience at Butlins with your granddaughter. It sounds incredibly frustrating and disappointing, especially when you were hoping for a fun and inclusive family outing.

Your concerns about the lack of neurodiverse awareness at Butlins are absolutely valid. It’s reasonable to expect that a family-oriented place like Butlins would provide autism-friendly shows and events, clear and timely communication about schedules, and appropriate accommodations in areas like the swimming pool and soft play.

You are definitely not being unreasonable to expect these adjustments. Many places are increasingly recognizing the importance of accommodating neurodiverse children and providing sensory-friendly options. It might be worth providing your feedback directly to Butlins. Customer feedback is vital for them to understand and improve their services.

Your expectations for reasonable accommodations for your autistic granddaughter are entirely valid, and here's why:

1. Inclusion and Accessibility: Just like how physical accessibility is crucial for wheelchair users, sensory accommodations are essential for neurodiverse individuals. It's about inclusivity and ensuring that everyone can enjoy the experience, which places like Butlins should strive for.
2. Precedent and Examples: Other family-oriented places, such as Hoburne, have already implemented neurodiverse-friendly activities, like quieter events or reduced music levels. This shows it's possible and beneficial to make these adjustments.
3. Varied Needs in the Autism Spectrum: As several people have pointed out, autism is a wide spectrum. What works for one child might not work for another. However, offering even a few sensory-friendly options can make a significant difference for many families.
4. Reasonable Adjustments: Expecting a place like Butlins to offer at least one sensory-friendly show or a quiet space isn't demanding too much. These adjustments don't require a complete overhaul but can significantly enhance the experience for neurodiverse children and their families.
5. Equality Act 2010: This act legally requires service providers, including entertainment venues and holiday parks like Butlins, to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that disabled people are not put at a substantial disadvantage compared to non-disabled people. Autism is considered a disability under this act. Reasonable adjustments might include providing quieter areas, offering sensory-friendly shows, and ensuring clear communication about schedules.
6. Inclusive Practice: Under the Equality Act, inclusivity isn't just about physical adjustments but also about sensory and cognitive accessibility. This aligns with your expectations that places like Butlins should cater to a diverse range of needs, ensuring an inclusive experience for all families.

I understand that some of you believe the original poster should have anticipated the challenges at Butlins, but it's important to recognize a few key points:

1. Legal Obligations: Under the Equality Act 2010, service providers, including family resorts like Butlins, are legally required to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that disabled people, including those with autism, are not put at a substantial disadvantage. This means providing sensory-friendly options and clear communication about schedules.
2. Inclusion and Accessibility: Just as physical accessibility is essential for wheelchair users, sensory accommodations are crucial for neurodiverse individuals. This is about inclusivity and ensuring that everyone can enjoy their experience. Many venues, including cinemas, manage to provide sensory-friendly showings, demonstrating that it is both possible and beneficial.
3. Reasonable Adjustments: Expecting a place like Butlins to offer at least one sensory-friendly show or a quiet space isn't demanding too much. These adjustments don't require a complete overhaul but can significantly enhance the experience for neurodiverse children and their families.
4. Varied Needs in the Autism Spectrum: Autism is a wide spectrum, and while one child might cope well in certain environments, another might not. Offering even a few sensory-friendly options can make a significant difference for many families.
5. Positive Feedback and Improvement: Feedback from customers, especially those advocating for reasonable adjustments, is vital for venues to understand and improve their services. Instead of dismissing these concerns, recognizing their validity can lead to positive changes that benefit a broader range of visitors.

Everyone deserves to have a pleasant and inclusive holiday experience, and reasonable adjustments are a step towards achieving that.

@95bubbles I just want to point out that lots of places that claim to be accessible for wheelchair users, are not. If you stay at Butlins for example, you need to bring your own hoist.

I don’t disagree with any of that. if you want to take a child that doesn’t like that kind of a holiday then these will all make things a better experience for them ,yes.

But if your child really doesn’t like that kind of a holiday then no amount of adjustment will make it their dream holiday, so I think what the other posters are saying is why go in the first place to try and make something “fit” the child rather than finding an experience that works for them with less requirement for compromise?

@95Bubbles thanks for including a mature response.

I think people are missing the point on here. If you don't make reasonable adjustments, you don't just exclude the child, but the entire family. Neurodiversity is increasing and not making reasonable adjustments is a shit business strategy really.

I think what most people expect is a few well thought out activities across the week. A couple of autism and disability friendly slots for the pool, entertainment etc. The holiday provider and customer both need to make an effort to be reasonable and meet in the middle. You can't expect them to totally change how they do things, but they should provide similar opportunities to join in in a way that meets their needs.

My son with complex needs is in a mainstream atm. Never been invited to a party, but wouldn't have taken him to one anyway as it is the child's special day and it wouldn't be appropriate for him to attend. He be grabbing fistfuls of birthday cake and throwing food around!

He is hyposensitive, so seeks sensory stimulation - not every child with ASD needs quiet and fewer people. My son loves a disco, but he might charge about a bit and shout, but I would be with him to keep him and others safe. Obviously we wouldn't do this in a restaurant though. I think we are quite reasonable in what we expect really. We expect people to accept our sons disabilities and not judge and bitch if he isn't really affecting anyone, but don't want the world to change around him either. We do have to do a lot as a family to make things work with activities normal families take for granted, and are always by his side, so I would hope we weren't excluded for any reason.

you make a valid point. Accessibility issues are indeed widespread, and it's frustrating that many places fall short in providing adequate facilities. As both a wheelchair user and someone who is autistic, I understand these challenges first-hand.

It would be ideal for Butlins to offer hoist rentals as an option, I also think it's reasonable for some guests to bring their own hoist if they can, for personal comfort and familiarity. However, providing rentals could significantly improve accessibility for those who cannot bring their own equipment, enhancing the overall experience and inclusivity for all guests.

I understand some might argue why they should have to rent one, but offering a rental option would cater to those who are unable to transport their own hoist. This service could be seen as part of providing comprehensive accessibility, ensuring that all guests, regardless of their personal circumstances, can enjoy their stay comfortably. It’s about creating an inclusive environment that accommodates a variety of needs and preferences.

I see where you're coming from, and it’s true that finding a holiday that aligns with a child’s preferences is essential. However, the broader point here is about ensuring that mainstream holiday destinations like Butlins make reasonable adjustments to accommodate a diverse range of needs. Not every family can limit their options strictly based on their child’s specific needs, especially when places like Butlins market themselves as family-friendly. By implementing even a few sensory-friendly options, they can become more inclusive, allowing more families to enjoy their services without having to compromise significantly. It’s about creating an environment where all families feel welcome and included.

thank you for your thoughtful response. You’ve articulated the issue perfectly. It’s not just about making adjustments for one child but about ensuring entire families can enjoy these experiences together. As you mentioned, simple, well-thought-out accommodations like sensory-friendly slots for activities can make a world of difference without overhauling the entire operation.

Your experience with your son highlights the spectrum of needs within the disability community. Some kids might thrive in a high-energy environment, while others need quieter settings. Providing a range of options can help cater to these diverse needs. It’s also about fostering understanding and acceptance, as you’ve done with your son, ensuring he can participate in activities in a way that’s safe and enjoyable for everyone involved.

In the end, inclusivity is not just morally right but also beneficial for businesses. More inclusive practices can attract a wider range of customers and build a reputation for being accommodating and family-friendly. Thanks again for your insights :)

We do cruises and when you cruise from Southampton there is a company called mobility at sea who offer a wide range of equipment for hire at reasonable prices. We have only ever used them for a wheelchair but were impressed by the service.

for a lot of places having a store of equipment to hire isn’t practical, especially when it comes to things like hoists which require a lot of servicing, so having the option to hire things at a reasonable price is a great alternative.

Actually, it is possible for wheelchair users to go on mountain climbing holidays. There are specialized companies and adaptive equipment designed to make these adventures accessible. The key point is that accessibility isn't about making every experience identical for everyone but about providing reasonable adjustments to allow participation.

Here are some well known examples;
Aaron Phipps, a Paralympian and wheelchair user, who climbed Mount Kilimanjaro in 2016 using a specially adapted wheelchair

Karen Darke, a Paralympic cyclist and wheelchair user, who has scaled El Capitan, a vertical rock formation in Yosemite National Park, and also participated in expeditions across Greenland and the Himalayas.

Enock Glidden, an adventurer and wheelchair user, who climbed El Capitan in 2016, overcoming the 3,000-foot ascent using adaptive techniques and equipment.

Marc-André Masson, a Canadian wheelchair user, who summited Mount Kilimanjaro in 2012

John Davis, who, despite being paralyzed from the waist down, reached the summit of Mount Hood in Oregon using a specially designed handcycle.

and many more

These examples show that with the right equipment and support, activities like mountain climbing can be made accessible.

The key point is that accessibility is about making reasonable adjustments so everyone can participate. Just as mountain climbing has been adapted for wheelchair users, family-oriented venues like Butlins can implement sensory-friendly options to be more inclusive for neurodiverse guests.

It's about ensuring everyone has the opportunity to enjoy different experiences. By making these accommodations, we promote inclusivity and respect for the diverse needs of all individuals.

thank you for sharing your experience with mobility equipment rentals on cruises. It’s great to hear that there are services like Mobility at Sea offering equipment hire at reasonable prices. 😃

I understand that maintaining a stock of specialized equipment, such as hoists, can be challenging for many venues due to the servicing and storage requirements. However, as you've pointed out, partnering with third-party companies to provide rental options could be a practical solution. This approach ensures that guests who need specific equipment can still access it without the venue having to manage the logistics themselves.

If venues like Butlins are unable to offer direct rentals, they could prominently feature information about local mobility shops that provide such services. I do know that the Butlins website mentions local mobility shops, although you really have to go looking for that information. Making this information more accessible and easier to find would also be a significant step toward improving their overall accessibility too.

The other issue is that siloing disabled people into specific holidays that are disabled friendly is restrictive not just for the disabled person, but the rest of the family as well.

Schools used to be able to authorise holidays for children with disabilities who would massively benefit from holidaying during during term time when it was quieter. Now the government has put a stop to it.
And before I get five replies telling me that disabled children should only holiday in a cottage on a remote island miles from civilisation, this post relates specifically to Bulins.