To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

Ok thanks we are going to minehead in July just before school hols so will have to find out about for my son, swimming was a nightmare last year as they had timed sessions you had to book so the queue to get in was massive, and you couldn’t wait until it had gone down as then you wouldn’t get in and would have to wait for next session

Sadly I have voted YABU - and that is from the Mum of another ND little girl. There are lots of
places we avoid - Butlins is at the top of that list, but also add bowling alleys, funfairs, crowded trains, the underground. These environments just aren’t suitable. You knew this beforehand. Try hoseasons, camping or if budget allows Centre Parcs next time .

Sorry, I do feel bad about the responses here but I do think some checks beforehand would have prepared you for the trip. I’m glad to hear your granddaughter had a good time despite the setbacks.
If she mostly enjoyed playing in the cabin and time with you guys then maybe just a self catering holiday somewhere lovely looking would be better next time. Depending on location you’ve got Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Norfolk, Yorkshire, etc. Does she like the sea? Somewhere with a beach where a bucket and spade is all you need.
also that way you aren’t rushing to keep to a silly preset schedule that butlins obviously don’t intend to keep to themselves!

Sorry, I do feel bad about the responses here but I do think some checks beforehand would have prepared you for the trip. I’m glad to hear your granddaughter had a good time despite the setbacks.
If she mostly enjoyed playing in the cabin and time with you guys then maybe just a self catering holiday somewhere lovely looking would be better next time. Depending on location you’ve got Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Norfolk, Yorkshire, etc. Does she like the sea? Somewhere with a beach where a bucket and spade is all you need.
also that way you aren’t rushing to keep to a silly preset schedule that butlins obviously don’t intend to keep to themselves!

Did you raise it with any staff at the time? I take my ND children to Butlins and I find that they're really keen to make adjustments where they can if you just ask.

As an example, they let us check into our room early at no extra cost as DC needed a quiet space after travelling so it was ready for us for 12pm. On leaving day we were allowed late checkout. We were allocated a guaranteed ground floor for no charge as it was necessary for DC's needs. We had a dining package and DC will only eat at a wall-side table not in the middle of the floor, we made an arrangement with the dining staff where we told them in advance what time we'd be arriving for breakfast/dinner and they would make sure there was a wall table reserved for them. We had VIP passes so we didn't have to queue for shows, Butlins refunded the cost of my pass and DH's pass on the grounds that we are carers. The passes allow early access into the venues so we were able to choose the most suitable seats for DC. When DC lost their ear defenders, Butlins staff helped look for them including searching inside areas like the shop and the soft play even though they were closed for the night. When they didn't turn up anywhere, next morning I had a member of staff knocking at our apartment with a brand new pair. Staff were able to tell us when would usually be the quietest times to visit the funfair or the arcade or bowling too.

We avoid the pool as it's a hellscape even when it's fully operational and the changing rooms are disgusting. We choose activities our DC will like such as crafts, painting, sports classes, balance bikes, go-karts, pool/snooker, silent cinema and silent disco (silent disco is hilarious because they won't wear the headphones and instead just copy everyone else's dance moves, all in total silence). We go out into the town to the aquarium and the seal sanctuary. We go to Skypark first thing on the morning when it's quieter. We go the funfair just before it closes so it's quieter. We use the arcade near the funfair because it's got more natural light, is more spaced out and is quieter than the one inside the tent.

The soft play is segregated by age because it's a staffed soft play, for the most part adults aren't allowed in the play frame. I've always found that the staff are really proactive in managing behaviour and won't let children rampage too much. If you'd explained that your GD needed support on the older child area then they'd have let you on as they've let me on with DC before.

Whilst I understand some of your points, I think you are also being unreasonable. They didn't allow her in the soft play you wanted, to cater to other younger children, who would not have understood her needs. A disco is never going to be quiet, although the last start was understandably frustrating. I would going online groups who would be able to advise of places that may suit the kind of holiday you're looking for, as I'm sure there are others that have made similar 'mistakes'

Op I understand your viewpoint, it is annoying that more holiday camps/resorts don’t cater to neurodiverse kids. On the other hand, my daughter is autistic and very sensitive to sounds and busy places, so buttons/haven etc is somewhere I wouldn’t even consider taking her. I think it’s about knowing the child. My daughter is much happier in a quiet campsite due to her needs. It works for me!

I agree with this and find a lot of companies/venues use it as a way to try and wriggle out of their obligations in relation to equality - complain and you'll get told "well we do have an autism friendly hour/session you could have used and then this wouldn't have been an issue...". It's just a way of shunting us autistics out of sight so we don't upset the normies.

I have an autistic child and honestly I’m with others. This was a mad place to a child too. There’s no way they can ever adapt to an individual child’s needs.

If you want this kind of holiday I can recommend some of the smaller Haven or Parkdean sites. We've been to one in Wales and one in Cornwall that my autistic kids have loved.

It's also easier if you can go outside of the main school holidays if possible. My DS's school have all their inset days in the same week, so we always go away that weeks as it's quieter (and cheaper!).

Op I think you're great for taking your grandchild away and being sensitive to their needs. My kids grandparents wouldn't dream of doing that

Not necessarily. We have an amazing softplay near us that is Sen sessions. She has put a few things in place:

reduced numbers
removal of age restrictions for the different areas
opens up the party room as a break out space
25% off

The sessions are run at a loss.

on occasion I agree and actually making them sen sessions actually makes them harder for my autistic daughter to access but there definitely are autism friendly that are just that.

I've taken my NT DD to Butlins Skegness and it was full on, but that was expected. It was a half term, the shows are designed to be energetic and interactive, there are arcades, fun fairs etc the whole thing is set up to keep kids busy and entertained for early to late.

I've also taken her to Haven, it's much more low key the caravans/lodges are more spread out, there is beach access and quiet walks, the entertainment is less frequent and more low key. The swimming pool is smaller and has less flumes and stuff but that means it's also less busy.

In your situation if I wanted a holiday park with activities and kid stuff but with less volume and business than Butlins I would absolutely choose somewhere like Haven.

If you have an ND child or are ND (I am ND FWIW), you should research these things in advance and not expect them to be provided. It would be nice if everywhere did, but that’s just not realistic at the moment. Turning up on a holiday just expecting there to be ND-friendly performances is madness.

As an adult with sensory processing disorder Butlins is my idea of hell. I wouldn't dream of taking a very young neurodiverse child there.

I think you're being reasonable to expect and advocate for these adaptations and considerations, and tbh, we all should be.

I think that taking her to Butlins without making sure there were things that she could handle and then being cross about it is where you're coming unstuck. It only would have taken an email to find out that it would have been unsuitable.

You're not wrong, you're just in a difficult situation.

Butlins whole thing is loud and in your face fun for the kids.

Delays happen they can’t do anything about that and the pools always been rammed constantly even before booking. If you want it quieter tots break or owners only.

YABU taking an autistic 3 year old to butlins in the school holidays. Of course it was going to be busy and loud, there are plenty more appropriate places you could have taken her to.

The whole experience at Butlins is not/can not be truly ASD friendly. It's important to be clued up on needs and try not to 'gift' an ASD child with something like this that is your idea of 'FUN'. It's like trying to stick a square peg in a round hole. Look into other experiences where they can calmly take part in things they enjoy minus the 100's of loud strangers, upsetting noise, unexpected new routines etc.

They have a silent cinema, also you know your daughter is autistic so why on earth did you not get all her swimming stuff on her before she got to the pool so that you are literally only in the changing room for a minute. You also need to come up with ways to help your daughter, with my children we avoided all entertainment for years because it was too loud and too busy, you are choosing to put your daughter in this environment that you know will be.

We also visited holiday venues in quieter times the same with Indoor play areas, you can't expect play areas to let your daughter into the toddler bit of she's above her height limit especially when there will be babies in that part.

The harsh reality of living with autism...

Lots of places are not suitable. Especially any place aimed at children in school holidays. Because they packed, which creates noise, and gives no space.

And "Autism Friendly" days can be unsuitable too, due to the conflicting needs of different people with Autism.

Do until your GD starts school... making the most of visiting these places during school hours and term time. So the Soft play centre, where she can play on the equipment of a suitable size without 10yos, or the museum, or a quieter holiday.

I've lost track of the number of times we've cut a highly anticipated trip short due to Too Many People. DD is nearly 13 now. Her tolerance is higher, but we still need to plan

Cinemas and soft play do those things at off-peak times/days to get people through the door when they'd be quiet anyway. Butlins in half-term is not an off-peak thing and doesn't have off-peak hours.

Swimming has been like that since covid and because they overbook. It's rubbish.

In the nicest possible way I’m in the YABU group - and I’m on the spectrum myself.

My Daughter and husband are NT and love these types of holidays though so hopefully these tips will help for next time:

1. apply for an access card or similar. These will normally open up quiet areas or virtual queue (not a jump before anyone jumps on the band waggon, you get a stamp and sit somewhere quiet for your turn)
2. contact the park before hand, Check FAQ etc. see what is available for disabled guests.
3. plan plan plan, and have a plan B. Harder for a 3 year old, but if I know what we are doing and when we are doing it I know how to move my energy. Indoors loud areas are a lot harder than outdoors, so indoor activities are limited for example. Locate quiet spots.
4. try to visit during term time week days.

sounds like she enjoyed the beach and quieter activities, it’s ok that she was happy in the apartment - the holiday was a success and she had a great time. I love being on holiday and just chilling on the balcony- I’m not fussed about going see and doing all the “normal” activities. I think that’s the hardest part for my family, as it can come across as miserable and missing out. But I’m not, I’m on holiday and happy and make sure there is an even mix so we can all enjoy what we enjoy.

I'm really glad she had a great time, bet she loved being spoilt by her grandparents for the whole holiday too!

I'm sorry it was harder for you. Like you, I feel like the world should be just as accessible to children and persons with disabilities. Why should everything be harder? But in reality, I know it's not, sadly, and I don't really have the answers as to how it would work in practice.

That said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to send some polite feedback saying if they wanted to improve their accomodation for disabilities, x, y and z would be helpful. It might be something they're looking at anyway, you never know.

I think the mistake you made is seeing things from the perspective of adapting unsuitable activities to make them suitable, rather than taking your GD to do something she would enjoy without any need for adaptations.

I think a lot of people, understandably, think along the lines of wanting their child to be able to do the sorts of things they think children should enjoy. So they take the child to a really loud busy show and give them ear defenders and various coping strategies that enables them to just about tolerate it, when in fact the child would probably have been happier doing something they didn’t need adaptations to cope with. Of course, if you have other kids who are neurotypical, then it’s important they don’t miss out and adaptations for their sibling can mean that the whole family can do something, which is great. But I think if there is only one child, there’s less need to fit a square peg into a round hole.