To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

And yes, I agree it's awful that a company like Butlins will take money from eg Family fund customers and still not actually make much provision for additional needs.

You need a forest lodge or something much smaller. Some still have pools.

I don't know why on earth you would take an autistic 3 year old to Butlins of all places.

I'm autistic and I wouldn't go near the place.

They don’t do the b line passes anymore, it’s vip passes and they get you in earlier for the shows but not for swimming. Swimming was horrendous when we went to minehead last year as they’d introduced timed sessions rather than it being freeflow so the queues for each sessions were huge

As a primary school SENCO this is something we talk about a lot in our authority SENCO meetings.

We will move heaven and earth to make the adjustments necessary to allow children with all sorts of needs to thrive in school.

But, at some point, parents and their ND children will come up against the fact that the world doesn’t make ‘reasonable adjustments’ trying to find a balance between allowing a child to thrive at school and prepare them for the real world is a very difficult thing to do.

As is putting in place appropriate consequences for ND children, whilst we understand that behaviour is often communication that won’t mean a child is exempt from the law as an adult.

Back to the thread, and please excuse my tangent, OP you needed to do more research, maybe a quieter caravan park without entertainment might be a better choice next time.

But it's not a lack of ND awareness, it's that they cater specifically for people who enjoy loud music, discos, a bit of chaos. I used to do care work and sometimes supported groups of adults with learning disabilities and autism to Butlins, the Mencap disco nights and similar trips and holidays, they absolutely loved it. Obviously the people who didn't would stay at home, but you can't say a disco with music and flashing lights isn't ND friendly because for some ND people that's their dream activity. You just have to select the right place for your families needs. Butlins makes it easy because they're really clear in what they offer.

Sadly I think you picked the wrong sort of resort without doing research prior.

Butlins likely do not have a big enough customer base requiring autism-friendly shows in order to make it cost effective that they are put on. It’s unreasonable to compare it to a cinema whose customer base is everyone who lives near it enough to travel there.

Butlins doesn’t exist to provide people with holidays and entertainment. It’s a business and it exists to make its owners money.

oh dear OP, I think you are suffering from unrealistic expectations, and so inevitable disappointment.

Three seems quite young anyway for some of the activities you envisaged ‘kids disco at 6 pm’ .wouldn’t she be a bit tired by then? Is a disco really the best choice for a child with autism, punctual or not? Does she swim a lot in her day to day life?

you say she is small and timid and obviously dislikes loud noises and unexpected ( dis regulating) circumstances . Perhaps it would be better ongoing to think of spending time with her doing things that she will enjoy and which suit her; I still treasure the memories of time spent making cakes ( ha ha, lots of flour on the table) and drawing and painting with my grandmother in her home. That would be much nicer for you both.

Laughable really. Kids disco, family swimming and soft play... Really they're never going to be suitable for your granddaughter based on what you've said. Just seems ridiculous to think that they would be good options I less they had specific specified there would be quieter, calmer sessions taking place.

The head at my sons mainstream told me this mainstream schools are busy noisy places and if a child can’t cope with that they shouldn’t be in one. The issue with schools is though you don’t get a choice in sending a child to school unless you home Ed and people shouldn’t be forced into that.

It's odd that you expect it, rather than calling first to ask if they provide these performances before you book.

Companies are in the early stages of adapting to neorodiversity. You can't 'expect' anything, and as a parent of an autistic child, I'm afraid it's down to you to do your research before you book.

ETA sorry, just realised you're the grandparent. But still. Research is key.

You sound like a lovely, thoughtful gm. It’s a steep learning curve figuring out what works, particularly when you’re looking at promotional pictures of pools with 5 people in them and you haven’t imagined what happens when you combine cramming in to max capacity with incompetent management and underpaid, inexperienced college kid staff.

This is the general feeling of most people, but it wouldn't hurt to make one session of swimming a 'quiet session'. It wouldn't hurt to start things on time. It wouldn't hurt to have a sensory room for when kids get overwhelmed. None of the stuff above is expensive.

Some autistic kids actually love places like Butlins and go again and again every year because the sameness appeals to them and makes them feel safe.

Autistic children are children too and they deserve a holiday.

Im assuming you are talking about Butlins Minehead. I normally go into October half term when it is quieter. Butlins also do term time mid week breaks called just for tots. I didn’t have a older child I would have taken my autistic 3 year old to one of those as they are much quieter.

Half the swimming pools are broken at Minehead at the moment. Hence the queueing and booking a slot. On a midweek break I normally go on a Thursday as that is the quietist day. Afternoons are generally quieter than mornings.

Normally, when I go to Butlins there are lots of kids wearing ear defenders and in SN buggies.

Butlins is what you want it to be and you can organise you own schedule to suit you and your kids.

That’s like saying I don’t like clubbing and then coming back and saying I’ve just had an awful time in Ibiza.
We go to butlins but my kids are NT. Even they find it loud and too much at times.

for what it’s worth why don’t you try giving butlins some feedback? They can always create some ND shows if the uptake is there?

Autistic children are children too and they deserve a holiday.

Not one person ahs said they don't deserve a holiday though? All were saying is that not all holidays are suitable for all people and therefore the onus should be on the person booking it to find a holiday that works for the people attending.

Thanks for all the replies, I realise this was my mistake. Believe it or not she actually enjoyed the holiday - that is, she enjoyed playing with her toys in the challet, she enjoyed going for walks on a night time which she normally doesn’t get to do, she enjoyed the beach (and as someone else said the giant beach set up) … in her head she’s actually had a great holiday and didn’t want to go home. The disappointment is in my head really because I should have known better. The bits of the holiday she enjoyed we could have done anywhere.

Remember it’s been over 20 years since I had a small child … I’m a bit rusty 😂 Next year it will be a forest lodge. I absolutely know she would love that. Especially with day trips out to castles/the beach etc

Typical entitled attitude here. I see it a lot when it comes to disability. If Butlins doesn't work for your family you don't go to butlins. We have been holidaying in places to suit our disabled family for over 20 years and I wouldn't dream of going somewhere that didn't fit our needs then leaving a bad review about it.

And before anyone comes at me about disabled people and the world needing to be accessible, it's a holiday, so you choose the one that meets your needs. If it were a workplace/school etc and they didn't cater for you needs that would be different but holidays are optional and there are literally unlimited options for people. Personal responsibility exists

It's a pity you didn't take him to one of the pre school Butlins breaks that are weekdays in term time. My daughter and family go. The shows are Peppa Pig and Justin Fletcher ones and everything is aimed at little ones. My little DGDs (one of whom may be ND) have a very happy time.

They are a loud brash set up! They can't make exceptions at soft play because not all autistic kids are alike, some (mostly boys) are the complete opposite and would not be good in the toddler area as too rough. I've rarely seen quiet kids shows either, there's one sitting of the panto each year.

I have an autistic dd, we never went to places like butlins, we avoided soft play and indoor children's activities, even swimming indoors, too noisy! My recommendation is to go to places where there's not likely to be many other children eg non coastal hotels, eg we found a road trip of inland Spain great, often no other children staying there so the pool was really quiet. I was in Buxton recently and there was a young autistic girl with her family, again only child there.

OP I think the biggest adjustment here needs to come from within you. All those things you think kids will love, and that you possibly loved as a child - not gonna happen for your granddaughter. You need to imagine yourself as her eyes and ears and try to see things through them instead of a tint of nostalgia. My DF has no idea how to relate to my autistic child because he has never bothered doing this. He just asks me over and over again why my DS can't cope with fairgrounds/busy piers/pantomimes/circuses/all the other stuff adults think kids love.

Name for me some of the entitled disabled stuff you see please. If you see it a lot you should have no problem listing it.

Sorry to pile on but I really can’t see why buttons was your first choice. I’ve never been but I’ve seen the adverts and I couldn’t think of a place less set up for an autistic child!
If you needed them to have all these things that were suitable for neurodiverse kids then why didn’t you call and check before you booked? I’m afraid this one is on you?

They're a business. And a business that never sells itself on being progressive or inclusive. The business model of sell it cheap, fill it up, like it or lump it is fairly transparent and they obviously feel they can make sufficient profit from a customer base that doesn't require adjustments to bother introducing them.

As an adult it is hard to adjust your expectations to reality. It takes time, ds is 14 and I still have moments of it now!

the important thing is she enjoyed it, and it showed you a bit more about what she enjoys on holiday so that can be the focus more next time.

if you have enough adults do try to include some time for you all to do something you enjoy too!