That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

But what if they really really want to? 🥺

All this "inner reality" stuff is absolute nonsense. Surely you must realise that @poetryandwine.

TW can't possibly know the "inner reality" of being a woman, anymore than I could know the "inner reality" of being a man. Because I'm not one. And could never be one. It's akin to me knowing the "inner reality" of being a giraffe. It's just shit they've made up to justify what they WANT to be. Or want to pretend to be.

Living with this level of paranoia must take so much energy.

I would say Poetry would choose the man in the woods, not the bear...

100% not right neither are mixed toilets.
The country has had it, all a bunch of snowflakes frightened to upset anyone.

Here you go - he discusses his meds with the arresting officer at the end of this two minute clip:

Then why would you treat them differently from other men?

The vast majority of male prisoners who say they are women are housed in the male estate. There's no reason they all can't be.

Same here.

Male encroachment on women’s spaces is already happening, even though gender self-ID is not legal. (A Tory plan to legalise it was defeated in 2018, thanks to a wave of opposition by women).

The Labour Party has pledged to legalise self-ID. That will allow every man access to all women’s spaces and services.

The autonomy to intimidate, distress and (if he wishes) sexually harass potentially 50% of the population?

Nice.

Hear hear.

I agree too. Labour need to change their stance on this issue. Their misogyny disgusts me.

Here are some better statistics:

https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1105

NHS trusts recorded more than 35,000 cases of rape, sexual assault, harassment, stalking, and abusive remarks between 2017 and 2022.

At least 20% of incidents involved rape, sexual assault, or kissing or touching that a person did not consent to.

While the vast majority of incidents were patients abusing staff and other patients, the total includes 3218 patients abused by staff and 902 staff abused by other staff.

Experts say that these figures vastly underestimate the problem because systems for recording are so poor across the NHS.

Also, these are just the recorded incidents. We know that the vast majority of sexual assaults go unreported.

The figures are not broken down by sex but we already have a good understanding of the different offending profiles of men and women:

https://fullfact.org/crime/bad-and-dangerous-know-do-men-commit-almost-all-crime/

And should the guy who had his teeth filed down to fangs, whiskers implanted in his face, striped tattoos put all over his body and his lips mutilated to look like a cat, actually be counted as a tiger?
He thought he was, but really, he was just a very mixed up, unhappy ill man.

Still a man.

That's no more ridiculous than the concept that men can "be counted" as women if they have enough shite done to themselves.
Ridiculous.

This is so far into the realm of the hypothetical that I find it boring

Don’t reframe my thoughts. Inaccurately

Zero assaults on humans works for me. I know too many thoughtful, intelligent people doing the best they can to the pittances that go to the NHS and social services to think it can be accomplished easily.

I wonder why the more boring and repetitive posters here think they are accomplishing by having a go at me rather than contacting their MPs, mounting social media campaigns, etc? Oh, wait - that might require a higher level of discourse.

Presumably you have never experienced gender dysphoria. Nor have I

I don’t find that poster boring or repetitive, quite rude to say that really. You are on the thread a fair bit though, you don’t have to if it’s too dull.

Maybe they are doing all those things anyway.

Please don’t do that. My cancer was picked up from screening.

I always politely refuse intimidate care from males due to modesty and religious issues.

It works every time. They can’t enquire about religion. I’m atheist 😇

When I was very ill in hospital a male nurse came and said he wanted to take ‘non-invasive’ swabs.

When I asked from where he said ‘oh nothing to worry about- just nose, vagina and anus.’

I refused as above. When he argued I rang my husband (not really) and he disappeared.

He was replaced by a silent female nurse.

There’s always the private option but why should you pay if you don’t have to.

This is interesting, if terrifying. Thank you for the reference

The problem appears to be so systemic and widespread that it calls to mind the motto ‘better together’. The way forward is for people who care about abuse in hospitals - of and by staff and patients - to use data and reason to develop policies to minimise and ultimately prevent it. (I saw no data on TG people in rather quickly reading your source).

Of note, perhaps the most horrifying thing is that there were about 360 cases of child rape and (physical) sex abuse in NHS hospitals during the reporting period. The perpetrators’ status is not clear - a large majority of abusers are patients. In any case, this should have been a national scandal.

But focussing on protecting children or women or staff or patients is less powerful than focussing on protecting everyone, and doing so without prejudice. Of course, sanctioning harassers is not prejudicial

What are you suggesting?
Boys and men can have long hair and wear dresses.
It doesn't make them trans.

Perhaps his mums are just more open-minded (than you) when it comes to what their child likes to wear!

I don't believe believe that a lesbian couple are more likely to trans their kid than anyone else. In many ways, it's lesbians who have suffered most from the current situation (being regularly told that their same-sex attraction is 'transphobic' etc).

There's enough homophobia in society already - esp that coming from TRAs - without you adding to it.

We are each entitled to our opinions. Mine includes the speculation that I would be engaging in a higher level of debate with people, instead of being on the receiving end of so many ‘it’s true because we say so’ posts, if this reasoning were available to them

The MSM don’t tend to publish letters of that nature

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13464701/Mental-health-nurse-died-trans-hospital-patient-tried-strangle-using-drawstring-hoodie-attacker-jailed-life-attempted-murder.html

Are

Nothing wrong with mn. It actually provides a rare space online for women to talk about this stuff. It gets noticed, gets press and builds the conversation.

Hence many male focused posters lash out and attack it.

Posted before I finished. Was just about to say in response to that Mail link just now - women are props to predatory men. And they hate us.
Now all the predatory men have to do is say they are women and the world opens every door for them. This nurse is lucky to be alive. The man who did this to her will be out in a few years and will probably kill his next female victim.

@poetryandwine regarding gender dysphoria - telling others that you don't have it, neither do they, doesn't mean that anyone can imagine what it feels like to be the opposite sex.

I think it's disgusting!!
He has obviously changed his mind and should be in with the men, & I bet he wouldn't persistently ask a man if he was going to get changed!
If HR is fine with him, then he can change with her.
You are NOT being unreasonable, and I hope those nurses get their changing rooms back very soon!!
He IS a MAN!!

I have noted the various ways you respond to points you can't answer, yes 😂