That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

Thank you!

Of course. However, it seems odd that the poster I'm referring to has the time to tell us about how curvy her friends are but can't answer a simple yes/no question.

What question? I fully accept TW are more violent than women and find this boring. Most of them are still full of male hormones.

TW vs men is more interesting and requires more accurate measurement. This was the original question. Shifting goal posts

Of course. However, it seems odd that the poster I'm referring to has the time to tell us about how curvy her friends are but can't answer a simple yes/no question

You may find it "odd" but there is no however, you just don't need to go on like that, it's rude.

You obviously missed my post of 20.02

I was able to find provincial statistics from Ontario and 23 years of national statistics from America. In the few minutes I’ve had between hecklings I did not find any British ststistics (on numbers and genders of nurse attacks on patients).

Extrapolating from the US data is reasonable. Whilst the problem is abhorrent in the abstract, this leads to the conclusion that the scale is so small - and the problem involves enough women - that single sex care is not the answer. Chaperones might be, but that solution is labour intensive

Not 23 yrs, 13 yrs

Both of those counties allow self ID though, so we've no way of knowing how many of those male and female offenders were what used to be commonly understood by the words 'men' and 'women'. That's one of the other problems of obfuscating language, stats are all polluted.

In this country it’s standard practice for unconscious women to be used to teach junior doctors how to do internal exams regardless of the procedure they are having.

I’d consider pretty widespread abuse too.

Keir Starmer was asked specifically about changing rooms in this interview (at 1:18) - he doesn't appear to think changing rooms should be safe spaces for women;

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-starmer-lashes-out-intolerance-transgender-issues/

Back in 2022 was this ?

Keir Starmer was asked specifically about changing rooms in this interview (at 1:18) - he doesn't appear to think changing rooms should be safe spaces for women;

Same as the Tories on this then they've had long enough to make change and showing us again, they don't care.

I'm not sure if it's worse that the Tories want us to believe they "know what a woman", is so don't even buy into this, but allow woman to get abused anyway, not even for the cause, just because.

Yes, the Tories claim to know what a woman is. They just don’t care

Agreed. I don’t mind occasionally being practised on whilst conscious in the name of education, during a relevant procedure, but this is creepy

We are expected to pretend that biological sex is not a fixture of our species and that human beings can become whatever sex they like. To say that this is scientifically illiterate is obvious. To say that it leads to dangerous outcomes is obvious.

Yes I agree

This is simply silly, when answering one question requires research as shown above and the other took 30 sec

Douglas Murray wrote this.

I didn’t but I agree

A valid point we don’t know how to deal with. I suspect it is complex. After all we see examples of sex abuse of minors by female (not TW) as well as male teachers in the press.

However when extrapolated to the UK, the American numbers are so small, 13-14 cases per year here, I think the risk is low. Chaperones are the best remedy for vulnerable women. But a costly one

BTW although I could not find UK stats, I did find references to the same 3 or 4 cases going back 10 years of male nurses convicted of abusing female patients. I am sure other cases never saw the light of day, but found nothing to suggest a large scale problem and nothing to suggest the involvement of TW

I'm a life long Labour voter but I am completely sick of all the "well this happened under the Tories" posts.

The Tories didn't create any of this, the worst you can say is that they've dragged their heels fixing it. But they did commission the Cass report and they have now published draft guidance on trans issues for schools. Both to cries of outrage from various politicians of other parties.

It’s like if there were a road in your area that had a high number of fatal accidents, the local residents wanted the speed limit reduced, the local council seemed willing to do so, then at election time, and the opposition party come along and say they want to increase the speed limit, the residents are horrified, but the opposition party supporters say "well those road fatalities happened under your leadership".

It makes less than no sense.

Thinkbiglittleone
Back in 2022 was this?

Hopefully someone will ask Keir Starmer about changing rooms again now. Labour need to clarify which spaces they are referring to.

(Starmer's 99.9% of women 'haven't got a penis' was 2023 by the way.)

It may well be possible at some time in the distant future to replace a male body with a perfect female one while retaining memories, personality etc. Will that person then genuinely be a woman? If you woke up tomorrow and your body had been changed for a man's then would you still consider yourself a woman?

You are right in that I am happy to count people who have undergone a profound medical ordeal to align their bodies with their minds and, if you like, their souls, deserve to be counted as women if they feel they are women

That is a big time future

naw won’t ever happen.

Whilst the problem is abhorrent in the abstract, this leads to the conclusion that the scale is so small - and the problem involves enough women - that single sex care is not the answer.

No, that's not how we manage risk. That's like saying 'well such a small number of car journeys lead to crashes, we don't need to wear seatbelts'. We recognise risks, then manage them as best we can, we don't shrug and say 'well it's a small scale problem so we don't need to do something simple to mitigate it'.

Unless of course you think a small risk to women is worth it to validate a small number of males' feelings? TW Sophie Grace Chappell thinks that, Sophie Grace said it wouldn't matter if there was a slight spike in women being murdered in order to allow TW to self identify into women's spaces. Maybe you are of a similar mind, it isn't worth safeguarding women's spaces in order to reduce the risk to women if it means unhappy TW?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12711047/Transgender-activist-female-murders-ethics-rules-therapists.html

I don’t do hypotheticals