That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

Surely the issue is the comments and sexual advances from a HCP who should know better not the genetics or gender identity of the person involved!

How would it be any different if the person concerned was XX and attracted to XX so made the same comments! We are all human and I don't see the difference undressing in front of a man or woman however I would likely shoot down someone making comments like that in a changing room.

They can of course refer to themselves as a woman. People can describe themselves as anything they please. But should everyone else have to regard them as a woman in every single circumstance?

My view is no. Adults can socially transition if they choose, but they cannot demand to be recognised as the opposite sex in situations where sex is important for safety and welfare of others.

BTW, when you suggested that you would prioritise the feelings of a woman who had been raped or suffered sexual trauma, you're presumably expecting the woman to explicitly reveal that sexual trauma in order to gain single-sex care. That doesn't really seem very fair on survivors.

We should agree to disagree. You believe people who have made this arduous physical transition are men. In my circle they have earned the right to label themselves and we honour that.

But my firm beliefs about the privileges of gender identity don’t go much further than this. It is a highly complex subject. What’s alarmed me on this thread is the blaming of Labour for problems created or exacerbated by the Tories and the boring repetitions of baseless claims.

The evidence of the last 14 years is that the Tories have been shit for women. Prosecutions for rape and DV have almost ceased - for all of us who are so concerned about vulnerable women, I cannot understand why this isn’t 10x more offensive than worrying about who you are changing next to. The obnoxious guy in the original article isn’t nearly as likely to rape or kill any of us as our male husbands, partners, BFs. Yes, I trust DH fully but I know lots of dead women thought the same thing once upon a time.

I think it is easier to focus on stranger danger, even as adults

We all need to disclose in confidence to gain accommodation for special needs. It is a fact of life in education, HE, the workplace, applying for disability benefits, etc.

Not the most fun but it can be done with sensitivity and minimal intrusiveness

Glorious catch.

I think stonewall would consider me trans. I’m rebuilding a car and can squat 200+kg

It's not about sexual attraction, it's about power. This male has been given official permission to transgress those women's boundaries and is using it to make them scared and uncomfortable. Those women were told this was a women only space, and it isn't, and when they objected were told to #bekind and give away their space because a more important person likes it better than his own allotted space.

Brava to your first paragraph.

I’d like to give the person making the remarks the harsh side of my tongue but in the UK right now it wouldn’t be …. prudent

No. Women don't have to disclose trauma to deserve single sex spaces. They're not yours to give away to those males you've decided have earned access and matter more than the women those spaces are for.

So honouring men born in the wrong body plus Labour

‘Stranger danger’ as a response to women who say no consent to mixed sex and who prefer privacy, safety and dignity in single sex spaces is ludicrous as well as dismissive.

It would be a reasonable inference from some of your posts.

And

I did not say ‘males who are aroused by cross dressing are not transgender’. My understanding is that this is a subtle question.

The post I quoted said ‘…and still have fully functioning penii, most of which get hard when wearing women’s clothing’. In other words, most transgender males are sexually aroused by wearing women’s clothing. You can trace this back in the quotation thread.

This is what I requested evidence for.

Someone posed me a hypothetical question about allocating care. She was very persistent. It is all in the thread.

People picked up on the bits they wished to without reading the background

I mean what do these posts actually mean? They are written as if an HCP

What’s their experience they are referring to

If you're not on a wind up you need an appointment at Specsavers.

I use to live with a trans woman who'd had every bit of surgery possible and there is no way you would not have known he was a man. Maybe it was the size 12 feet, the 6+ foot height, the big hands, a voice like Barry White and a very obviously male gait.

Next you'll be telling us Caitlin Jenner passes.

Whilst a man who has had his penis chopped off is incapable of rape, it doesn't make him incapable of sexual harassment, ogling, or just been a general perv. You often find these transwomen still fancy biological women and call themselves lesbians! Intact or not, I don't want you in my private spaces.

The 'how would you know so why would it bother you' thing.

Of the transwomen I know:

One has fathered daughters. One wrote academic papers in his previous male persona. One I've known from a small boy. Another local highlight is at least 6ft 4 with an Adam's apple and rather more visible under the minidress than you'd want in your eyeline.

It's hardly a question of looking at someone a bit well built for a woman and being unsure.

A misreading I can only think deliberate, as several times now I have supported single sex changing rooms (though disagreeing about the status of an incredibly small percentage of people)

No misreading. What you want is not single sex.

@poetryandwine Out of curiosity do you support transwomen in women's sport?

Just curious, have they all completed a physical transition with hormonal treatment and surgery? Not the one who shows under his minidress, I guess. What about the others?

What does being a (former?) academic have to do with anything?

My only big concern for those who have experienced a lifetime of gender dysphoria, remedied through a gruelling physical process. In my circle they have earned the right to be classified, fully, as they prefer.

The fully physically transitioned are the only ones I was discussing in that post

The question was how one would know they were male. My answer showed you how I could be certain. The previous male name was the certainty in that case.

I believe the father of two has "fully transitioned".

And the lifetime of dysphoria is something he hadn't mentioned to his shell shocked wife until his mid forties.

They seemed pleased, don't they?

Second one