That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

What’s the dysphoria where an overweight person believes they are a skinny person? Will the NHS help my transition with that? It’s all cutting bits off, isn’t it?

I consider that anyone who has undergone hormonal treatment and surgery has the right to call herself a woman

@poetryandwine have you done your research yet?

Are you ready to give a yes or no answer to the question 'Should men have access to vulnerable women who cannot communicate their wishes for female-only intimate care, and who are unable to report incidents of abuse/call for help if assaulted'?

Because that question requires 'research', apparently.

Why though? They're clearly still 100% by any biological marker

100% male

I am not sure exactly what you are hinting is particularly relevant, that you haven’t covered ad nauseam already. If there is a genuinely new aspect, why not quote it?

You misrepresented yourself. You know you did, so why such an issue with people calling you on it?

Oh my days.

It is this deluded thinking that has resulting in women's rights and safeguarding being so fucked.

I bet if I'd asked you 10 years if a man could become a woman you'd have laughed me out of the room.

But the thread started off in reference to an intact man, sorry, woman-with-bollocks, who is currently sharing a changing room watching multiple unwilling women strip off.

Access to unwilling women is not being restricted to the post-op few.

We know, that’s the concerning part you are not considering the impact on women

Can you read these posts and listen to what women are saying?

To be fair to Poetry, she has a different view about intact men versus men who've had surgery - and she clearly spelled that out.

It should be self evident to a 10 year old that no one takes it literally.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be evident to politicians of all stripes, people in the media who should know better, the NHS, schools and all sorts of other organisations and people in general, who certainly behave as though they take it literally.

Unfortunately no amount of hormones or plastic surgery changes your sex. Trans women no matter their transition are male and have no place in places designed to maintain the privacy, safety and dignity of women .

The law will not act differently towards men with a GRC with surgery and without

So women need to take that into account

You also cannot even check wrt a GRC

Current law enables anyone to enter

I share your sentiment if not your language, @ExtraDay

Given NHS policy as I understand it I think what to do is tricky. IMO this particular TW is probably reportable but the grounds aren’t as strong as one would hope, in order to have a good chance of success.

A lot of what this thread has become scares me for our society.

True.
But that is the trouble. So few men have the operations. Like very few. It's all part of the fetish.

And then who monitors men who have had operations vs men who haven't entering women's spaces.

It's almost like to be safe we need a silly blanket rule of say, no men in women's spaces or something daft like that...

That’s it? What about everything else we women deal with, from BIRTH, that they haven’t had to suffer?

Does this help? HM prisons data on TW sex offenders - likely to be an underestimate since HM prisons have in the past (not sure about now) counted males with a GRC as females.

And then who monitors men who have had operations vs men who haven't entering women's spaces.

It's almost like to be safe we need a silly blanket rule of say, no men in women's spaces or something daft like that...

Well quite.

I doubt admitting post op men to women's spaces while keeping everyone else out is feasible, even if I agreed with it (and I don't)

How would it be checked? Documentation? We're now at a stage where people are afraid to challenge men in women's spaces in case they are deemed to be the problem, so there will always be men happy to take advantage of that.

My language is jaded by this point, Poetry, and I'm ill and grumpy today.

We all seem to have to tiptoe and pretend. That's a man, in a women's changing room. My TW acquaintance is his daughter's father, whatever he now calls himself. My niece is still female despite the mastectomy.

These things matter.

Let’s be literal - you really wouldn’t know the difference between changing next to a well conditioned swimmer and a fully physically transitioned woman unless you stared very carefully, and probably not where you’re thinking.

So how could it bother you?

I‘m out. You CAN’T be real.

No matter extent of transition still male and should not be in female only places.

So now your recommending deception.

you cannot be for real, you are not that stupid.

I don't think you've ever met a TW in real life, if you actually believe that. Humans are excellent at correctly sexing each other. It's not just hair makeup and clothes, or the obvious things like height and size of hands and feet - q angle, posture, even stuff like skin texture and smell is different between men and women. The survival of our species has required us to be able to correctly sex each other, and we're really good at it.