That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

In the normal course of events, we wouldn't base laws or organisations policies on the strength of a metaphor.

"Born in the wrong body" was a phrase that deliberately implied trans identities were innate and fixed from birth onwards, and attempted to draw comparisons with sexuality. It was manipulative, it was completely false, but it was sadly quite successful in forming a false idea in the public's minds of what it meant to be transgender.

'Largely' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, isn't it. What you actually said has been requoted on this very page

Exactly.

Male bodied people do not belong in women’s spaces. What they are asking is for their rights to be put ahead of women.

Trans activists should be asking themselves why males are not more accepting of gender diverse people, and campaigning for men to change their attitudes. Women are sick of being accommodating beyond what’s fair and reasonable.

If you do not understand gender dysphoria, the NHS has good help pages. If you do not understand metaphor, reading some of your marvellous British poets can help

Are you suggesting that there is a possibility that TW do not commit sex crimes against women? It sounds as if you you are. Because after all, surely you would agree that even one incident is too many. Particularly when that incident was completely preventable.

And that being the case, you wouldn't have to do any 'research', would you?

Yet seemingly unable to honour women who tell you they have been through a considerable ordeal and do not want to be treated intimately by men.

Right.

Gender dysphoria is not changing sex, now is it?

So why would we accommodate it by compromising same sex spaces for women?

Mostly talking about honouring friends, born in the wrong body and ‘transitioning’

Since you do work in healthcare I find the dismissal of what women are saying concerning

It’s not just for traumatised women but all who are asking for privacy and dignity with single sex spaces

Maybe listen?

TW don't want 'third spaces'.

They want ours.

They're all crimes by men. That's the point.

Don't increase access to vulnerable women for men, regardless of how they dress

Well quite considering this has happened during a decade and a half of Tory reign

I have never implied that I work in health care. Someone asked me hypothetical questions. Someone else is telling me anout consent law (for a hypothetical emergency) but posted any case law or official guidance to back her claims

Are you actually trying to tell me womens consent doesnt matter?

Wow. I dont require case law to know
My NO means NO.

Have you noticed gender ideology anywhere else? The Cass Review anywhere else?

Apparently consent is also not taken literally.

FGS of course not. It is my belief from the medics in my family that ultimately patient safety comes first. If you are ever in a position where you feel that your consent has been overridden because HCPs made a medical judgment to prioritise your safety, you are of course welcome to make a complaint and take it as far as your resources will allow.

This is the only situation that was ever under discussion

Edit but not posted….

How many is too many?

If you throw open the doors to anyone who thinks they are a woman to access previously single sex spaces, with no safeguarding, would you reasonably expect more or less assaults.

I am not personally in favour of mixed dressing spaces so I will leave this to someone who is

Except that you are in certain circumstances, no? Or are you adjusting that view?

And you know the third one is trans now because…?! Starting to sound like you’re making things up. The number of men who pass as women is staggeringly low, but you know 2 or ‘3 of them?!

But you are for your friends and similar who have transitioned or were born in the wrong body?

I wonder what men and transwomen have in common. 🤔

They wouldn't be for me, I'm a capitalist through and through.

Of course TW just like men and a few women commit sex crimes against women. Ideological purity is for adolescents. Proportions matter. We can’t deal sensibly with a problem until we have measured it.

You have conflated two things, that is low.

My need for research was to do with who should be able to provide care to vulnerable women.

Any reasonable person can see that PPs are hurling too many topics at me for me to say anything at all in haste.