That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

no such thing as born in the wrong body, even the charity mermaids rowed back on this some time ago.

You very obviously have no idea what your talking about here. And you seem to think consent is a matter for other people to decide.

I don't think anyone objects to you standing with your friends. But when you claim that the NHS say that your friends were born in the wrong body though, we'll just point out that's completely false.

I have said early on that changing spaces is different. I favour separate spaces for TW, for everyone’s sakes. I was shot down.

In fairness, that's not exactly what you said. You were saying something different for those who had 'fully transitioned'

Presumably this "shooting down" was people pointing out that this has been suggested a bazillion times but the idea has been rejected by trans people and organisations?

I really fail to see why a rather elegant metaphor has got so many backs up. Dislike it - that’s your privilege.

It should be self evident to a 10 year old that no one takes it literally. The same could be said of much great poetry

Many people do favour a third space but the TRA community see that as an insult because it’s absolute complete acceptance as being a women and having full access to women’s spaces they want - no debate.

@poetryandwine there is a reason why, for the longest time, job adverts for carers required to carry out the most intimate care for female patients specified female applicants only. That's still the case, but of course, now 'female' can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.

There are tens of thousands of women who require personal care who are non-verbal and cannot communicate their need for female only care. They also may be unable to communicate distress, or report incidents of abuse, or be able to draw attention/call for help while that abuse is taking place.

If you've RTFT you will know the statistics relating to TW and the disproportionately high incidence of sexual crimes. If you haven't, do so, or look it up for yourself - the information is readily available.

Are you happy to allow men to perform the intimate care needs of the most vulnerable women, knowing all of the above? Be honest. A simple yes or no.

IIRC I wasn’t in the UK then. At this point you surely understand why I plan to do some reading around all sides of that, and ask friends with a variety of viewpoints

Yep. Third spaces are insulting apparently because nothing short of full access to women’s spaces is good enough validation

There’s no ‘shooting down’ just facts being reiterated

Not for everyone no

If someone has gone to the considerable trouble of physically transitioning I welcome them into female spaces. (There is the very exceptional rapist but then there is the very exceptional born-female rapist, also)

I would need to research first

It’s happening now and continually, it’s not a case of being at a specific place in time where you wasn’t on the UK.

What would you need to research?

Whether or not allowing men access to the most vulnerable, non-verbal female patients is appropriate?

I find it somewhat interesting that this question 'requires research' but the desires of a man who tells her he's born in the wrong body would be immediately honoured 🤔

What does this tell us about how the poster views men versus women?

Actually some of the statistics I would like about TW are not included on this thread, AFAIK

What proportion of sex crimes against women are committed by TW?

It’s been stated that TW are more likely than men to commit sex crimes against women, but I do not recall a statistic here

What proportion of HCP who provide intimate care are TW?

What proportions of male HCP and TW HCP are accused of violating women?

What proportion of sex crimes against women are committed by TW?

More than enough?

This is simply silly - I haven’t written anything to suggest this and I have written several things in favour of third spaces

Don’t put words in my mouth

I think that's been completely obvious since the get-go, hasn't it.

In this case, a man's desire to be seen as 'female' and have free access to the most vulnerable women overrides those womens' needs, dignity and safety.

If you need to 'research' that, we already know your true feelings.

And more than enough by men, too - so you gave the ultimate non-answer

Just the caution

You seem to forget that your words are on this thread for all to see 🫠

Of a scientist against ideologues

What is the 'science' that says men can become women?

Yes, largely favouring third spaces, prioritising traumatised women, etc. Odd how that is being ignored