That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

I will let this highly articulate comment speak for itself

I am getting really bored with people failing to take my answer in context.

If you did, please cite case law or Trust guidance stating when it is appropriate to let a woman incur grave harm because there is no woman available to help her

If I remember correctly a few years ago, the phrase "born in the wrong body" was banned from use in school's materials on the grounds that it was obviously complete horseshit.

At which point organisations like stonewall suddenly claimed they'd only ever meant it as a metaphor.

In comparison the comment "wut" is a shining beacon of sense and honesty.

IIRC I am the only person on the thread who has discussed the invariance of one’s chromosomes so you may assume I understand this. I am quite comfortable honouring people who have been through a considerable ordeal with the language of their choice

Easier I suppose than anybody explaining why one break with reality is a mental illness and another break with reality is something to be affirmed

Still happy to stand with my friends

The Tories haven't changed the law on this though. The NHS, police, rape crisis shelters and various companies are not following the current law/equality act so there is still room for some pushback.

If Labour get in, the law will undoubtedly be changed so that there is NO room to pushback on this. Game over!

The willingness of women to throw members of their fellow sex under the bus because they 'have some trans friends' or see no issue in it is so disappointing and disturbing.

I really don't care how awesome and non-predatory your friends might be or even how you think they pass as women. They are still men and as such should keep out of women's single spaces.
It really is simple.

If trans identified men have got issues with that, they can campaign for their own 3rd space... Except that has already been offered and refused. They do not want that. They want to invade our spaces.

For some reason, these men want access to women and young girls when they are their most naked and vulnerable.

Why would women offer themselves up to be the gunieapig?
When one does, do they then give a mark out of ten as to how nice the man was and deffo not a misogynist twat who might rape you, do you think men might have a problem with the marking?

The power differential between men and women makes it infinitely safer for women to nurse men on the mens side, not so much for the women. I know an awful lot of nurses who detest having to nurse men, because of the inevitable remarks. Like
While your down there doing my feet, give us a blow job love.

Yes we know who you wish to honour

You also show a very good ability at dismissing what women are saying about their privacy, safety and dignity

Why is that?

I have said numerous times that I am happy to honour women’s requests for female care insofar as practicable. My mistake appears to have been thinking we were discussing at the level

Thank you @Itwasabrightcoldayinapril, that was going to be my response pretty much but you expressed it better!

A perceived mismatch is not the same as 'being in the wrong body', @poetryandwine. That's not a thing, and no, the NHS doesn't say it is.

Of common sense, good will and rationality

Ultimately we should prioritise honouring reality and facts. Conforming delusions never helped anyone. In this case, there is significant collateral damage to women in addition

Do you also 'honour' women's rights to single sex spaces/care? Because it doesn't seem as if you do. I'm certainly not getting the impression that you do.

Why do you feel the need to honour men's wishes and feelings over women's, when it comes to issues which directly affect women?

No surgery (or any specific action) is required for this man to be protected under 'gender reassignment'. He just has to have 'proposed' a process.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/your-rights-under-equality-act-2010/gender-reassignment-discrimination

'In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex.
To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you do not need to have undergone any medical treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender.
You can be at any stage in the transition process, from proposing to reassign your sex, undergoing a process of reassignment, or having completed it.'

Absolutely 💯- the handmaidens pandering to the almighty penis are almost worse than the entitled men determined to force themselves into women’s spaces and demand validation.

Sex as priority over gender every fucking time - I can’t believe it’s even an argument the other way.

What about your female friends who are rape or SA survivors and do not want men in their changing rooms or carrying out their smear tests? Do you stand with those friends, too?

And I would really wish that the men in your last paragraph could be deprioritised or sanctioned. This is vile (exception for dementia)

But this has become one of the most ideological threads I’ve ever seen. That’s never a mark of collective intelligence.

You absolutely do not get to override other womens consent.

What about women who have been through the ordeal of rape, do you honour them, too, and their choices?

Case law or Trust guidance, please. Remembering that this is only extreme circumstances.

I think that in the future I will abbreviate this to CLoTGP

If you have read my previous remarks you know that this whole tiresome saga started with me saying that the honouring the requests of the traumatised would be my top priority

I don’t think these criteria apply to your arguments

It’s not just about care it’s about single sex spaces, which is actually what the op raises by linking the tribunal

Why do you dismiss what women are saying to you on here?