To think taxing private schools...

[maddening]

I have no skin in the game, my dc is at a secondary state school. I have no strong views on private schools - although I think state should offer the same level for all dc.

However, looking at the maths I am not convinced the cost and benefits of this proposal works out - apparently vat will bring in 1.3 billion - however if the 554,000 children in private schools had to be schooled in state schools that would cost 4 billion - aibu to think this is not the win that many are led to believe? It is more divisive imo and driven by ideology.

If the private school parents are saving the state 4 billion a year then I don't have an issue with the vat personally.

I think that there could be more requirements placed on private schools in order to retain the vat free status, such as sharing facilities with local state schools and more subsidised places perhaps, or means tested vat relief for parents?

And there is no need to start the umpteenth thread on this subject. Again and again and again and again.

Well it makes the thread a bit different, doesn’t it? It may as well have something going for it.

Again not your call to make, this is a public forum and I am posting within the rules.

Not really, there are tons of posts like yours on many threads.

For a fantastically good reason, you might think.

I’m not convinced on the maths either, I’m not sure it’s mathsing but that’s not what this is about. Unfortunately Labour are using this policy (which in principle I don’t disagree with) to stoke up a culture war. I hoped they were better than this.

One thing I rarely hear mentioned is how this is going to impact LEAs who send many children to private special schools and are unable to currently fund this (and are is massive debt as a consequence).

Not all of them will move no, but some will. And they will then put pressure on an already struggling state system.
And for people who are saying that there is a falling birth rate, yes that's true but there are still the same number of year 3,4,6, etc kids who will need places.
SEN kids like my son being put into large classes with less support and unable to cope. What will happen then.
And certainly for my child we did not even consider putting him in private school to give him an advantage. He has many SEN conditions and I believe wouldn't cope at all in a large class with less support. We didn't put in in private for an advantage, we put him in private for as level a playing field as possible.

Do you understand that it is not? I realise you want it to. But it won't. It is the brexit bus. There are many people pointing out that at best, there will be no substantial gain, at worst it will be a monumental fuck up. This will not raise money.

just to clarify as I’m not sure of your position; you’d be ok with adding vat to school fees if they also added vat to private health care? Its the inequity that’s problematic?

I agree cottage, imo this is v ideological which is why it ends up in a culture war.

Yep

Hmmm - I’m not sure that’s true re. Child benefit but I’d be interested to find out… do you have a source?

Imagine all schools were good?

It’s a headline grabbing policy by Labour. It won’t pay for 6500 teachers for the state sector and won’t miraculously improve state schools.

Here's a radical idea for you. Why don't we subsidise private schools? Say, a few grand for every British pupil they take?

Actually, not that radical - it's what they do in Denmark. They also have subsidies in Ireland, Switzerland, Spain, Belgium and Sweden.

It would be an opportunity to widen access to private schools. But Labour just believe in the politics of envy. The only outcome of their policy would be our private schools taking even more pupils from China.

Private schools on average have half the number of pupils per teacher than state schools.

Which means that they have plenty of scope for reducing the number of staff in order to cut costs, which would allow them to reduce fees by enough to make the 20% VAT imposition affordable for parents.

@DayDreamer7979

Can you share the source of your figures for MoD CEA funding please?

I’d also be interested to know why you think that the majority of the 51,700 or so full boarders outwith London are from military families? (Based on 66,000 boarding pupils in ISC schools, 2% of these are in London, and 80% are full boarders).

YANBU an 8 year old could fugure the natural consequences of this out (if they had a decent education, which many more won’t as a result of this idiotic policy)

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the plan, imposing it immediately without a phasing in period is unfair on families and pupils. They are not handbags that you can just not buy. Moving kids is rarely an option - often local schools are oversubscribed. I would rather see plans to make private schools do (even more) for state schools eg share resources.

Your ideal is a completely two tier school system?

You want more selection in British schools? More polarisation? Poorer, disruptive and lower ability children in state schools, with public money going to private schools who are able to select?

Or are you arguing for a system like Finland, where privately run schools (there are a few) can get state funding for pupils but aren't allowed to select?

You're assuming that it's impossible for private schools to reduce school fees by cutting costs in order to make themselves affordable to parents who might struggle to pay current fees + 20% VAT.

It's not impossible.

They have twice as many teachers per child as state schools.

They just need to do what state schools have always done to reduce costs: increase class sizes and ditch extra curricula activities/sell off playing fields/get rid of support staff/allow their buildings to fall into disrepair.

Clearly out of touch if you think private school only costs £10K a year…

Then what would be the point/appeal of private school? No one would pay to send their kid there then.

They literally do tax private health care. You don't really think bupa have charitable status do you?

Personally I’d abolish private schools and grammar schools.

My parents could’ve easily afforded for me to go to private school. I went to state schools rated satisfactory by ofsted. I got A’s.

My very average state school had a year of 160, sets based on ability. Plenty of people got As and have gone to university.

My very average state school also managed to support students who didn’t have family support etc to get C’s, those kids C’s was more of an achievement than my A’s. They also supported many people to go onto vocational training.

My very average state school has produced doctors, dentists, social workers, nurses, midwives, soldiers, hairdressers, personal trainers, teachers, entrepreneurs, electricians and many many more. I also went to school with people from all over the world. This is richer than any private school mixing with people who also had wealthy / aspirational parents could provide.

Tax them to the hilt I say