Please help - boys' dad is being awful over their hobby

[OhMoreDrama]

Partner and I split about 18mo ago. We have two boys together, one nine, one six. They have been going horse riding since last summer. The lessons take place on a sat afternoon - this is part of the issue. I pick them up from their dad's, take them riding and drop them back off. It's usually about three hours on an afternoon.

Their dad picks them up on a Friday evening and drops them back off on a Sunday afternoon. I never have them on a weekend and do all of the school runs, appointments and so on by myself. Their dad literally does not see them at all unless it's between 4pm Friday and 4pm Sunday. This is his choice - he lives about fifteen minutes away and could easily see them in the week but refuses because he's been at work.

The arrangement means I have very little free time to do fun stuff with them - I'm literally just doing the routine stuff, maybe with a visit to the park or beach after school if the weather is decent. I work too so drop them off at breakfast club at 7am then pick them up from after school club at 4pm which means I have 4 hours to feed, bathe, do any homework and then get them to bed at 8pm. I feel like I barely get to see them!

He's now being absolutely awful about me taking them riding in "his time" - I have tried and tried to find lessons after school but there's nowhere in my area doing group lessons through the week - it's just private and would be £100 per week rather than £40 for weekend lessons. They boys also find it too much after a long day at school.

I have a been called a cunt, a fucking bitch, told he's going to take me to court for sole custody, that I'm a terrible person and a terrible mother, and more. I also "don't do anything for the boys" and he sorts everything out. That's just this week too.

I'm so utterly fed up with it now that I feel like just giving in and stopping the lessons but they really love it and it's helping so much with their confidence and physically too.

I'm sorry, I've written all of this and I'm not quite sure what my question is - aibu to want to be able to do an activity with my kids even though it's in their dad's time?

i bet @Retiredfromearlyyears has one hell of a hangover this morning!

so you suggested the change this weekend
and he said ok

doesn’t seem to have been any drama…

I realise this is late into the thread to comment, but saying riding is "sissy"! A lot of the British army for the past millennia would like a word!

Have a discussion with him about why the riding lessons are important for the children & that they enjoy them so shouldn't have to give up. Say that you'd be happy to change the arrangement to every other weekend & suggest he has them during the week on the weeks he doesn't have them. Tell him you work all week but still manage to care for them by yourself & he should be able to for a couple of nights each week too. If that fails, call his bluff. Next time he says he'll go to court say 'Great it's about time we had something fair in writing, go ahead & make an application' Or if you know he'll not & is just threatening it, suggest to him that you apply to the courts for a new care arrangement. That will panic him.

How was your hangover in the morning?

Likely because this happened to be a BH so he could have them on Monday.

I think having divorce lawyers advise about current practice and terminology is really helpful, but NB "contact" "access" etc are common parlance, many people advising here will be older and so will use the old terms - the concepts are the same and most people understand what is meant.

People using the old terms are also usually advising the OP to get legal advice - ie the legal advice would clarify the right terms and advise about process and what courts are likely to decide.

A problem as I see it is the fact that court decisions can sometimes not be in the best interest of the children - eg 50/50 in situations where it wouldn't be a good decision, or worse - which is why good professional advice is useful. To my mind getting advice from Relate about the abuse element as well as from a good divorce solicitor would be useful.

Yes, he only agreed because he could have them on the Monday.

So thats what you say next weekend "As last weekend worked better, I will drop them to you after riding on Saturday and you can either take them to school Monday or back here on Sunday night"

No argument.

"I want them all weekend"
"Ok, so you are taking them riding?"
"No, you want them to go, you take them"
"Ok, then as I said, they will be here Friday night and I will drop them at yours on Saturday after riding"

ETA.....after the inevitable abuse....

"I will drop them at yours after riding. Any further abusive messages will be noted and reported as harrassment"

This is what you do op. You need to stop thinking you can only do what he agrees to. Your children need a champion in their mum and you say this is what I’m going to do, it’s what’s best for the children. And offer a weeknight again for him to pick them up from school and drop them the next day, just to make him say no, so you’ve got that on record… He cannot make you drop them on Friday. He cannot make you be there for him to pick you up on Friday. He likes knowing he gets what he wants, and what he wants has nothing to do with what’s best for his children.

Exactly. What will he do if he demands you drop them at his on a Friday and you say "no"?! Force you? He knows he cant do that, he is relying on your fear of him to do as he says.

Did you ever see the film Labyrinth? David Bowie and Jennifer Connelly in her first role. The whole fantasy fell apart when she realised "You have no power over me!"

Op, is your ex always abusive to you? I would continue on with the lessons and keep them until after they have finished as you did this weekend. You deserve quality time with them. You deserve time off, without having to go to his to collect them for lessons.
He isn't in charge of what suits him, it is meant to be what is best for the children. Don't feel guilty, he is being difficult for the sake of control.

I hadn’t noticed any divorce lawyers giving advice but I may have missed them. I’m not sure their advice would be relevant.

I can’t speak regarding Relate but my advice to the OP would be to get a good Family Court Solicitor, she refers to the boys' Dad as a partner from who she split so the presumption is they weren’t married and Divorce Solicitors and Courts and Family Solicitors and Courts are different.

‘Custody’, ‘Contact’ and ‘Access’ may still be used outside the Courts but as they infer a level of ownership of the children, and hence inequality of the parents; in my view, and I believe the Courts’ view, the concepts are different which is why the terminology changed.

The terms ‘Living with’ and ‘Spend time with’ are much better descriptions.

I quite agree the OP should take legal advice (I think I advised it previously) but they should not advise about what a Court is likely to decide; I think that would be a step too far.

I can assure you the Courts do put the child(ren) first and they take professional advice from CAFCASS and, if required, Children's’ Services Social Workers. The first step of going through Family Court is Mediation so there is always the possibility of an amicable solution before even getting to the door of the Court.

I would have thought it was only because Monday was a Bank Holiday that he agreed, I bet he usually wouldnt dream of having the extra work of getting them to school on the Monday

This!
once I worked out how to do this I gained ‘power’ to help my kids.. it works well and the more you do it the stronger you get.. plus it takes the anxiety out of it because you know how you are going to react

Lawyers can advise on the likely (not certain, but likely, based on experience and case law) reactions of the courts.

I was just explaining why the old terms were still used in common parlance!! Than you for you explanation of why they were changed.

You may have mentioned it earlier - are you involved with the family courts as part of your job, and if so, what is your job? Just interested/nosy so please feel free to not say! I haven't read full thread.

I presume this is aimed at me (always best to quote a post you are responding to, referring to, or challenging).

However, if so, lawyers should not be suggesting ‘likely’ outcomes. They can advise on the Law, Case Law, and their experience of the Courts and, maybe, sometimes, on their experience of specific Family Court District Judges or higher Court Judges (still probably unwise) but to try and outguess a Bench of Family Court Lay Magistrates would be foolish.

Your explanation regarding ‘older posters’ using outdated terminology begs the question why those posters think their outdated knowledge of the language and also presumably processes and procedures, would translate to their suitability to give valid advice regarding current process, procedures, and thinking.

I’m not going to comment on posters who make strong assertations when they haven’t read the full thread.

I am also not prepared to be drawn on my experience/knowledge/qualifications/ etc. regarding the Family Courts. I am fairly new to Mumsnet but even I can see their disclaimer regarding posters’ qualifications, so it is irrelevant. I do not claim I have full knowledge of the Family Court system but know enough not to try and tell parents what they must do. Well, apart from the essentials like not to refer to children as ‘my’ or ‘mine’ and not to actively alienate children from their ‘other’ parent.

Sorry, I meant to quote you.

I am a lawyer (not a family lawyer) and it sounds as though you are not a lawyer - what I said was correct about how lawyers advise - a part of their value is what they know about case law and how courts are likely to make decisions. This applies to family lawyers too.

I was interested in your qualifications because of your posting style, just being nosy as your style seems quite unusual. It wasn't to do with challenging your advice, more to do with being interested in people generally.

In terms of challenging your advice, though, children have rights under law, not parents, but it is normal to refer to children as "my child" or "our child" in normal speech. In relation to Relate, they are very good ime at giving advice in relation to relationships including where there is a complex abuse dynamic. It is important not to alienate a child from the other parent, but it is also important to protect a child if their other parent is abusive. Advice from older posters who still use the old terminology is going to be very valid as they have been through it all.

I think the OP has had other good advice on the thread (I apologise for this derail, OP) so I will leave it there with you. If you are new to MN my advice would be to try not to be too combative - or at least choose your battles - otherwise you just shut down discussions and that loses the otherwise benefits of collective minds!

What I'm reading is that he only has them at weekends but the riding is being done at weekends. It does seem he feels his time with them is being impacted by the riding. Regardless if they just sit in front of a screen, if he sees that as his time only with them then he is going to resist if he feels that time is being used for other things. If just this one thing would resolve the conflict then maybe it's worth finding a compromise. Regardless if it's his choice not to have them workdays because he works, unless you go through the courts I don't see any way around this that suits both of you and there's no guarantee the court will give a favourable arrangement anyway. From a practical side there will be ways to do riding outside of weekends by altering one of their other after school activities. It doesn't seem feasible that no riding school anywhere in the area can accommodate on weekdays at an affordable rate.

I'd go to court to change your ex's time with the dc. Every other weekend is fairer on then and you.

He sounds like a thundercunt, though. And a lazy, shit parent.

But OP works all week too. Why should he get every weekend?
A decent man would take his DC to their hobby, that is only available at the weekend.
He should be putting his DC first.
It is very clear which parent actually cares about the children and which one is selfish and just wants to exert control.

That was in response to TheTartfulLodger

You left him but you're still under his control and it's affecting the children

You got the strength to leave him so use that strength to take back control and do what works for all of you not just him.
Just because he wants something doesn't mean that he should get it