Male carer changing daughter’s nappy

[FirstTimeMummyHK]

AIBU to expect the nursery to tell me in advance that a man has now joined the nursery and will be changing my daughter’s nappy? We have been with this nursery for a while and there were only female carers there. The other day I went to pick up my daughter and there was a man sitting in there and I asked the nursery manager quietly
whether he changes my daughter and she said yes he would do. The nursery manager was very grumpy that I mentioned it. I was very nice and
polite to her. I felt that her reaction to my
question was unnecessarily grumpy. I am part of a religion where it’s quite a big deal to separate men and woman although we are not orthodox. I understand that nurseries wish to preserve equality etc and I am
a huge supporter of
men taking on caring roles. However AIBU to expect to be told in advance that a man would be changing my daughter / taking her to the toilet/ wiping her private area??

It's because my DH loves his children that he wouldn't want a male stranger doing any intimate care for them.

Also because he understands statistics, and that men are vastly more likely to be paedophiles.

Most men I know wouldn't be ok with this. Gavin de Becker, international expert on safety and management of risk, says men have a different risk profile.

And yes, most abuse occurs in the home. This is not a compelling argument for throwing up our hands and saying oh well, let's not bother with risk management or safeguarding children anywhere else!

The nursery can be as equal opportunities as it wants. So can an office, or mechanics or wherever else people have given as examples of having to accept both men and women in the workplace. This isn't really about equal opportunities in that sense.

It's about a person having intimate access to someone elses genitals. That is fundamentally different to interacting with people on a surface level, fully clothed and in a non-vulnerable position. Wiping a snotty nose and wiping someone's vagina are not equitable. People should ALWAYS have a right to decide who does that, and different tolerances should be respected. I would not expect myself, or any child of mine, to be forced to have a male doctor examine me simply because he is employed by the hospital, so I'm not sure why people are trying to say being uncomfortable with it is unusual.

I find it absolutely astounding that so many people put a potential slight to a man's feelings above child safeguarding. My DH knows that men are more likely to offend than women and would want that to be taken into account when our children are being looked after. Men aren't idiots, why are we treating them like children? Gavin de Becker knows the same and wrote 'protecting the gift' which includes noting that men are more likely to be child abusers than women. He's a man, he's not offended by this fact because he knows he's not a child abuser.

This, in spades. I'm reeling from what I'm reading on this thread. So many women prepared to put their child into a risky situation because it might hurt a man's feelings to say you don't want him changing a nappy?

This is absolutely crazy am not sure what the issue really is op you talk about women being untouched as part of you regional this man is not touching your child inappropriate so you cant use that as a reason. If its a safeguarding concern then people need to remember it's not just men that abuse women do too!!!!

I have had a DD and DS in the same nursery. DD's nappy changing wasn't ever a concern for me and I never gave it any thought, but the situation wouldn't have occurred because there were only female carers in the 0-3yrs age groups and there were a couple of males in the preschool section but DD was completely toilet trained by 2.5yrs.
I wonder if there was a conscious decision by the nursery to not have male carers with the under 3's due to the nappy changing issue. I don't know how I feel about DD being changed by a male carer, it's an interesting one.

I'd also add, convenient as it may be to see this as a concern only for 'hysterical man haters' on MN, fathers are typically not overjoyed at the idea of strange men providing intimate care for their children either. And ime voice this in much stronger terms than the polite and reasoned objections expressed here.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. This will make me uncomfortable too. I think you are getting a lot of negative replies because you mentioned your culture.

I’m interested to know that if you had been told a man was changing your child’s nappy, what would you have done with this information. You say it like you just wanted to know and then it would have all been okay?…as you are ‘a huge supporter’ of make carers after all.

"polite and reasoned"

I've seen posts calling women on here idiots, fuckers, handmaidens, screeching, and one charming poster told another her husband was a paedophile who needed his harddrive checking because he works in a nursery.

Polite and reasoned my arse.

Yes my DH spent many years working in child protection and it left him with quite strong views on the care of our children. Some of the things he had to deal with were harrowing and most don’t make it anywhere near the media.

This is why men are so ostracised from childcare roles. We need more male practitioners.

Women are by far more caring and less sexually active than men. Stop pretending men and women are the same.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. Society can try and brainwash us all it wants but we all know inherently that gender roles exist for a reason. That's why if I'm being followed down an ally at night and I call the police I dont want 5f2 pippa showing up and when I'm giving birth I don't want 6f3 Darren examining my cervix. She's your daughter and you decide what your comfortable with, however, the nursery can hire who it wants and if they won't listen to your concern you will have to bite the bullet and change nursery's.

I can imagine. My husband has very strong views on it too as someone who was abused as a child - by a man.

'No sane or decent man would put himself in a position where he is cleaning children's genitals'

I work with children that have complex needs, alongside other male workers.
Majority of people that choose a career working with children do it because they enjoy working with children and want to make a difference to their lives, not because they want to clean children’s genitals. Anymore than a dog walker goes into dog walking, because they like picking up dog shit.
Why should I as now as a female be responsible for all the intimate care, while the male worker sits back ? Would the advocates of this like all the literal shitty jobs delegated to them because women are better suited ?
I doubt this male worker is just allowed to take himself off alone and change nappies anyway, there will be some kind of protocol to protect the child and himself from some of the attitudes on here.
Unsurprisingly there is a shortage of male workers, that are much needed with some children and it’s such a shame as they also serve such an important role in the lives of kids that don’t have a positive male role model.

Why do we?

What we have learned from this thread is many women do not understand the basic principles of safeguarding. It has nothing to do with gender roles or equality. I am a lifelong feminist, and not the fun kind, and I know that statistically men present a hugely higher risk to children than women. Of course men can work with children, but there has to be active safeguarding in place to ensure the bad ones can't access a ready supply of children.

Another thought, when I went to the doctor for a breast lump he brought in a female chaperone before he would examine me, for both his comfort and mine. Now I had known that doctor since childhood and trusted him but this was still best practice for the NHS trust.

To say that this is best practice for adults but for a child, who can’t speak out, having intimate areas exposed, we are are supposed to just think ‘nah fuck it, it will be fine’

Would you mind if a woman was changing your son's nappy? Why is the starting assumption there would be an issue with this, completely bizarre.

U.K. government estimates 1 in 35 men have a sexual interest in children. And that’s a conservative estimate. You think that’s minuscule?!

Are people allowed to assess risk for themselves? Given men commit 99% of child sex abuse crimes, the risk of having a male carer is objectively magnitudes greater. Do you deny this?

@justafleshwound2024

There are many, many cases of children being abused in nurseries by women too. As a victim of CSA myself and a qualified nursery practitioner, I really don't see the connection between male practitioners specifically and sexual abuse in nurseries. Every male practitioner I've known has been absolutely wonderful.

That is such a ludicrous post...

Would you object to a male doctor or male nurse treating your child?

A male teacher teaching your kid?

Where does it stop?

The nursery would have done all the DBS and references checks for any employee.

It would be discriminatory for them to single out a male member of staff and treat them differently (such as feel the need to 'warn' parents) simply because of their gender.

Grow up...