Male carer changing daughter’s nappy

[FirstTimeMummyHK]

AIBU to expect the nursery to tell me in advance that a man has now joined the nursery and will be changing my daughter’s nappy? We have been with this nursery for a while and there were only female carers there. The other day I went to pick up my daughter and there was a man sitting in there and I asked the nursery manager quietly
whether he changes my daughter and she said yes he would do. The nursery manager was very grumpy that I mentioned it. I was very nice and
polite to her. I felt that her reaction to my
question was unnecessarily grumpy. I am part of a religion where it’s quite a big deal to separate men and woman although we are not orthodox. I understand that nurseries wish to preserve equality etc and I am
a huge supporter of
men taking on caring roles. However AIBU to expect to be told in advance that a man would be changing my daughter / taking her to the toilet/ wiping her private area??

That’s not just your opinion, it’s a provable fact.

How kind you are.

I would not be allowing a male nursery worker to change my daughters nappies.

I would not be allowing a male to give me personal care either.

Yes and if this man you describe has half a brain and an ounce of self-awareness he will know all too well the pretty uncomplicated statistics around child abuse specifically and male perpetrators, and why jobs that enable them to come into close contact with children, even changing their nappy, might attract them. He will therefore understand the reservations of some parents.

Of course they are. Because as usual, those who want to prioritise the rights of a minority of men over the safety of women and children, really don't have any compelling argument. Never more so than when the 'right' in question is of no actual benefit to the man, but merely a point of principle. There is no good reason why men in childcare should be insisting on their right to do this particular task. And in the absence of this, those who (often erroneously) think men need support to enforce this right, have nothing to offer but the usual whataboutery.

YABU

This. You're not being unreasonable, OP. We have safeguarding for good reasons.

@OlympicProcrastinator brilliant post, spot on.

The nursery instead of being grumpy with OP should have explained their safeguarding procedures to reassure and also offered reasonable adjustment to take account of OP's religious needs.

As PP have said, no-one should be changing nappies entirely unobserved by anyone else. That's risk management. Are the predominantly female employees up in arms about this reasonable adjustment on safeguarding grounds? No, because they understand the reason for it and are not petulant children.

Decent men understand this too and don't take it personally when statistical offending risk is taken into account and risk management occurs.

It's not a personal slight. Robust safeguarding procedures protect the man as much as the child and frankly it would be a red flag if the man DID object to safeguarding.

I find it absolutely astounding that so many people put a potential slight to a man's feelings above child safeguarding. My DH knows that men are more likely to offend than women and would want that to be taken into account when our children are being looked after. Men aren't idiots, why are we treating them like children? Gavin de Becker knows the same and wrote 'protecting the gift' which includes noting that men are more likely to be child abusers than women. He's a man, he's not offended by this fact because he knows he's not a child abuser.

When I volunteer at my child's school I have a different risk profile to the staff - I've got a DBS but not an enhanced DBS and I also haven't been through the safer recruitment process so I'm not left alone with children. Do I feel this is discrimination and somehow unfair? No, because I care about children.

Ye gods this thread. And people wonder why we have such terrible issues with child abuse in this country. This thread is a good example of why - people looking the other way being unwilling to face hard facts and safeguard children appropriately as a result of those facts.

What about men with their own children?! Should they be stopped from changing their nappies?! Or hugging them?! Or kissing them?! I think it's pretty safe to assume if a man is an abuser then his own children aren't safe..?

God above, how do some of you actually manage to function in life thinking this way? Don't you have men you love and trust in your life?!

I agree with you OP, the major difference is that statistically a peadophile is far more likely to be a man. So, if you want to protect your children, just purely on data and stats, you would want to avoid unknown males - especially with any nudity including changing nappies. Sorry, I know that is going to be unpopular, but it is based on facts and data. I do not think it is unreasonable to question this. Albeit, I do think you need to be confident in the nursery team that they have strict safeguarding policies in place e.g., no phones, always someone else in the nappy changing room etc. These are some of the policies held at my DCs nursery.

YANBU and I’m surprised so many people are saying you are. I would hate this so much and withdraw my child. I don’t send my son to nursery as I didn’t want strangers changing him. I am lucky to have my sister as his nanny.
Maybe it’s because of my job I am aware that sadly abuse against children is not so rare :(

Interesting. I wonder what the stats are for abuse form strangers?

Ye gods this thread. And people wonder why we have such terrible issues with child abuse in this country.

It's actual astonishing the lack of critical thinking on this thread. Really very depressing.

Right but this point has nothing to do with the OP's child being a girl. It's just that men are more likely to be predators.

But that doesn’t mean the majority of men are paedophiles, only a minuscule percentage are.

As pointed out there are plenty of cases of female nursery workers harming children. One in the news this week.

You are not being unreasonable. It's your daughter and you belong to a group which feels separation of men and women in some circumstances is very important. The nursery ought to take this into account. Certainly men can take on caring roles, but some stranger changing my daughter's nappy would be a red line, I think. Not sure about a boy - and women can be abusers, too, but much less frequently.

You said exactly what I was going to say.

@Abeona I would really like to see actual evidence that historically men have not staffed nurseries due to the risk of them offending!

And its child abuse images please. Not porn. Porn implies consent.

Yanbu if this is a religious issue for you. Be honest with them about this. If they don’t listen consider finding a new nursery that will - easier said than done.

YANBU.. I'd not want that too.

I can't believe this is the level of thinking on this thread.

Are you really saying you cannot discern the difference between a partner /father of a baby changing their nappy and an unknown male nursery assistant?

A male who has chosen to work with easy access to babies and change their nappies?

And you're suggesting that a male who has children of his own is ok because if he was an abuser he'd be abusing his own children?

And that if he was it would be common knowledge?

Really?

Try mentioning 'love and trust' to all the women who were abused by their fathers.

What we've learned from this thread:

Men - childcare is women's work, you shouldn't be anywhere near them. Leave it to the little women.

Women - childcare is your responsibility.

How very quaint.

Having men we may love and trust in our own lives is entirely unrelated to the level of trust we may place in an unknown man. Surely you understand this? Or would you be as likely to accept a lift home at night from any random man who offered as you would from your own brother?

It's objectively true that having male carers increases the risk of sexual abuse to your child by at least 100 times. Men both commit 99% of crimes but also they are known to actively seek out positions where they can access kids.

I'm not reading 28 pages but I think the OP WBVU.

Fine to have those beliefs (although I strongly disagree), but it would have been your responsibility to make them clear when enrolling.

If you'd had a little boy would you have objected to a woman wiping his bum? Presumably not due to gender roles. This is where I disagree. A man can do that same job with the same care, skill and safeguarding.

I've done personal care work on men whilst studying and examined patients of both sexes as a medic. It's expected in this society for males and females to work in care quite interchangably (there may be specific settings where this is not appropriate).

If a patient, client or parent has an objection to this, that should be respected, but it is incumbent upon them to lay that out in the first instance. It's hardly having to think of everything, is it? 'any questions?' 'will there be any male nursery nurses? In our religion we don't usually agree to non-related males doing personal care for babies'. I'm afraid it's a 'you' issue, OP, not the nursery.