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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Male carer changing daughter’s nappy

1000 replies

FirstTimeMummyHK · 22/05/2024 22:22

AIBU to expect the nursery to tell me in advance that a man has now joined the nursery and will be changing my daughter’s nappy? We have been with this nursery for a while and there were only female carers there. The other day I went to pick up my daughter and there was a man sitting in there and I asked the nursery manager quietly
whether he changes my daughter and she said yes he would do. The nursery manager was very grumpy that I mentioned it. I was very nice and
polite to her. I felt that her reaction to my
question was unnecessarily grumpy. I am part of a religion where it’s quite a big deal to separate men and woman although we are not orthodox. I understand that nurseries wish to preserve equality etc and I am
a huge supporter of
men taking on caring roles. However AIBU to expect to be told in advance that a man would be changing my daughter / taking her to the toilet/ wiping her private area??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BonifaceBonanza · 23/05/2024 08:28

“Any decent man wouldn’t want to work with small children”. This has been posted a few times.

Surely you can see the nonsense in it.
The actual decent man without an iota of inappropriate thoughts would have no qualms at all about working with children, why would they??!!

The concept of “any decent man” falls completely flat for an actual decent man.

Conkersinautumn · 23/05/2024 08:28

Your child must learn skills to treat men
and women as future colleagues and to treat them with equal respect for their professionalism and capability. As they will not learn that from you it's important they have some positive influence from somewhere.

Naunet · 23/05/2024 08:29

worrieddaughter97 · 23/05/2024 08:20

It is, unless you're a sexist.

It’s not, unless you completely ignore statistics in order to blindly defend men at childrens expense.

JoKennelmaid · 23/05/2024 08:29

DunkinBensDonuts · 23/05/2024 08:25

this is hardly the ‘gotcha’ you think. Men are also more likely to sexually abuse boys than women.

The original comment was ' I wouldn't want personal care from a member of the opposite sex, ' So my answer was valid.

The abuse of children overwhelmingly comes from family and friends, so perhaps fathers shouldnt change their daughter's nappies, bath or dress them

SuperSue77 · 23/05/2024 08:30

loobylou10 · 22/05/2024 22:37

Oh don't be so ridiculous.

So her father is allowed to change her nappy? Statistically she is more at risk from him than a random nursery worker whose job depends upon completely appropriate behaviour and is unlikely to ever get an opportunity to change the nappy with noone else around.
My daughters had male staff at their nursery and my only concern was that she wasn’t left in a dirty or full nappy.

Catsmere · 23/05/2024 08:31

Heirian · 23/05/2024 06:43

Your daughter isn't a woman though. She's a child. You are sexualising her.

I have issues with different sex carers in some areas but in nurseries there should be enough oversight that it doesn't matter.
I know some excellent male nursery carers who are definitely not "pedos."

You're saying that acknowledging the existence of child sexual abuse and truing to protect them from it is sexualising children. Would you be happier if it was never mentioned? The paedophiles would thank you for that.

Hereyoume · 23/05/2024 08:32

loobylou10 · 22/05/2024 22:37

Oh don't be so ridiculous.

And if you had a son?

Absutely ridiculous position.

LadyHavelockVetinari · 23/05/2024 08:32

I think there's two different concerns in this thread that are being confused.

One of the reasons that women might want to request a female nurse or doctor is that men are much more likely to assault a woman in particular. A male patient doesn't have the same concern. We are typically physically weaker, our word carries less weight, more vulnerable and many of the abusers in professional settings are sexually attracted to women.

So on the one hand, we have the idea that women need protection from men, because men are way more likely to assault women. I think this is right. But it doesn't apply in the same way to children, because people who abuse children are not more likely to abuse little girls as opposed to little boys. Child abusers often abuse little boys too. Ok, so child abusers are also overwhelmingly men and perhaps it is a fair concern, on the basis of those few, to ban all men from any profession with children. But framing this problem as a woman's right's issue is a red herring. Child abusers don't only abuse female children.

The other, in my opinion unrelated, problem is this "dignity" issue of women having the right to dignity over not having their private parts seen by a man. I don't really see why this applies to children either as surely the background reason we want this dignity is the sexual violence that men perpetuate against women. It's seen as undignified because there's an unwanted sexual element to a man looking at a naked woman. But unless these men are child abusers that's not the case here. And if they are, we don't want boys around them either.

So perhaps OP it boils down to not wanting men in personal care roles. I think there's an arguement to be made for this, but it won't happen at nursery. Really this is an arguement for a childminder.

Aliciainwunderland · 23/05/2024 08:33

I’m going to try and be as respectful as possible… but perhaps you should not put your child in a childcare setting if you feel this way. The UK is an equal opportunities employer and the nursery cannot discriminate against their employee.

Greenroof · 23/05/2024 08:33

Blondiebeachbabe · 23/05/2024 08:20

WTAF !!!!

Is this really an unreasonable comment. In this day and age this approach to female sexuality is surely outdated

Beekeepingmum · 23/05/2024 08:35

YANBU any man who chooses to do "women's work" must have something wrong with them. No need to give in this woke non-nonsense. Just like if the garage you were going to has a "lady" mechanic you should just drive on past, a man in a nursery is a massive red flag. Some work needs to be kept to the proper traditional roles.

Hereyoume · 23/05/2024 08:35

Dramatic · 22/05/2024 22:38

Not necessarily likely to be a paedophile but much more likely to be a paedophile than a women.

Really!

So ALL males are paedophiles?

When do the Mumsnet Massive sit their sons down an accuse tham of being child molesters?

What age is it?

Travelismything · 23/05/2024 08:36

Your primary concern seems to be about your daughter’s “purity” as opposed to her safety. If when she is an adult her potential husband considers “unpure” on the basis of who changed her nappies then surely he is best avoided in any event!

Naunet · 23/05/2024 08:37

LadyHavelockVetinari · 23/05/2024 08:32

I think there's two different concerns in this thread that are being confused.

One of the reasons that women might want to request a female nurse or doctor is that men are much more likely to assault a woman in particular. A male patient doesn't have the same concern. We are typically physically weaker, our word carries less weight, more vulnerable and many of the abusers in professional settings are sexually attracted to women.

So on the one hand, we have the idea that women need protection from men, because men are way more likely to assault women. I think this is right. But it doesn't apply in the same way to children, because people who abuse children are not more likely to abuse little girls as opposed to little boys. Child abusers often abuse little boys too. Ok, so child abusers are also overwhelmingly men and perhaps it is a fair concern, on the basis of those few, to ban all men from any profession with children. But framing this problem as a woman's right's issue is a red herring. Child abusers don't only abuse female children.

The other, in my opinion unrelated, problem is this "dignity" issue of women having the right to dignity over not having their private parts seen by a man. I don't really see why this applies to children either as surely the background reason we want this dignity is the sexual violence that men perpetuate against women. It's seen as undignified because there's an unwanted sexual element to a man looking at a naked woman. But unless these men are child abusers that's not the case here. And if they are, we don't want boys around them either.

So perhaps OP it boils down to not wanting men in personal care roles. I think there's an arguement to be made for this, but it won't happen at nursery. Really this is an arguement for a childminder.

because people who abuse children are not more likely to abuse little girls as opposed to little boys.

Yes they are. 1 in 6 girls, 1 in 20 boys.
https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/nsa-child-sexual-abuse

National Strategic Assessment (NSA) Campaign 2023 - Child Sexual Abuse - National Crime Agency

The National Crime Agency leads the UK's fight to cut serious and organised crime.

https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/nsa-child-sexual-abuse

ChinaBlueBell · 23/05/2024 08:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NiceBerries · 23/05/2024 08:37

Beekeepingmum · 23/05/2024 08:35

YANBU any man who chooses to do "women's work" must have something wrong with them. No need to give in this woke non-nonsense. Just like if the garage you were going to has a "lady" mechanic you should just drive on past, a man in a nursery is a massive red flag. Some work needs to be kept to the proper traditional roles.

😂😂 that's going to keep me going all day.

DunkinBensDonuts · 23/05/2024 08:38

worrieddaughter97 · 23/05/2024 08:28

So you're pulling from the most extreme examples?

Google "nursery worker jailed" and the first result is a WOMAN who has been imprisoned for killing a baby in her care.

Most child care workers are women so they are overwhelmingly likely to be the ones charged with negligence and the like.

But when you specifically search with the words sexual assault …. it is exactly who you’d think

Conkersinautumn · 23/05/2024 08:38

Personal care is a necessary function of nursery staff, just as doctors and nurses may need to carry out examinations. There's a strong tabloid influenced hysteria element here assuming that anyone choosing a minimum paid job has dark motives. It's a wonder nurseries have any clients at all

MsCheeryble · 23/05/2024 08:38

Foggyfield · 22/05/2024 22:40

Yanbu.

Not all pitbulls kill children, but enough do that I wouldn't want one near my dc.

No sane or decent man would put himself in a position where he is cleaning children's genitals. And yes, it is different for a woman to do it. And we all know why.

So all those fathers, foster fathers and grandfathers who change nappies are insane or indecent, to say nothing of male nurses and midwives? Who knew?

Busybusybusy73 · 23/05/2024 08:39

I've not read all 25 pages of the thread, but for those who think female carer = safe, has anyone mentioned Vanessa George?

Also, older children, but children nonetheless, the maths teacher, Rebecca Joynes who was recently jailed for grooming teenage boys, deliberately getting herself pregnant by one of them.

There are many, many other examples.

Josephine0 · 23/05/2024 08:39

weltenbummler · 22/05/2024 22:34

YABVU ...unless in your family you only change your daughters nappies and your husband only changes your sons nappies!

As if being changed by parents is comparable.

ilovesooty · 23/05/2024 08:39

Beekeepingmum · 23/05/2024 08:35

YANBU any man who chooses to do "women's work" must have something wrong with them. No need to give in this woke non-nonsense. Just like if the garage you were going to has a "lady" mechanic you should just drive on past, a man in a nursery is a massive red flag. Some work needs to be kept to the proper traditional roles.

Wow. If that's a serious comment it's appallingly discriminatory.

x2boys · 23/05/2024 08:40

ilovesooty · 23/05/2024 08:39

Wow. If that's a serious comment it's appallingly discriminatory.

I assumed they were being sarcastic ?
Hopefully anyway.

Flopsythebunny · 23/05/2024 08:41

FirstTimeMummyHK · 22/05/2024 22:34

Thanks all. It’s helpful to see that most parents think it’s completely fine. I feel that the nursery manager could have been less grumpy with me for mentioning it as people do come from different backgrounds/ cultures but I see it’s fairly
common practice in nurseries. I will consider changing to a female only one.

A nursery in the UK cannot refuse to employ both sexes. That would be discrimination

Josephine0 · 23/05/2024 08:41

Busybusybusy73 · 23/05/2024 08:39

I've not read all 25 pages of the thread, but for those who think female carer = safe, has anyone mentioned Vanessa George?

Also, older children, but children nonetheless, the maths teacher, Rebecca Joynes who was recently jailed for grooming teenage boys, deliberately getting herself pregnant by one of them.

There are many, many other examples.

Yes, I agree but for every female offender there are far more male ones.

OP, I wouldn’t want a man changing my child either due to family history. I wouldn’t complain but a female would be my preference.

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