VOTE Labour and

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to feel this will happen un a Labour government???

From what I see and IMO, the Labour lot on the whole believe in aspirations but only for themselves

Older people will vividly recall the the hideous tax rates under labour - between 1974 and 1979 the paye tax rate was up to 80%. Then there was a tax on top of that for so-called higher earners of 18%. This equated to 98%

I don't trust Labour, nor do I trust the Torties. Liberals, IMO they will sell your soul down the river to get a sniff at number 10

As I said I don't trust any of them. But if you are working, worked hard, been prudent with your money and have savings, decent private pensions in the pipeline and possibly a property or two that you have worked for, for your retirement and not wasting your money and want to leave some behind for your kids, GC etc rather than throw it away on the hand to mouth life - then if Labour comes into power, you are totally and truly F'd

Labour rants they will do this and the other - the last time they almost bankrupted England,

If you are working hard being prudent with your money and made sacrifices to send your kids to a private school as many Labour MP's do on pay at almost 100k - they are eager to put VAT on this part of education. The MPS whose pay is a couple of times above average pay will be able to afford it - will you??

Me, my family, relatives have all worked hard, not on benefits, never lived in social housing and not thrown our money away but been prudent to be self-sufficient and pay our taxes to support our country. If you are like us, then trust me, under Labour, you will be shafted hard.

I'm not sure if I will vote tory or an independent but this circus of Tories and Labour taking turns to lie to the nation is not on and yes, most politicians lie and will lie and say anything to get into number 10 and if your feel that is not true, then you must be on another planet

A particular problem re high earners is, of course, Brexit - which has caused them to leave in droves.
What is your definition of in droves in this context? Please post your figures.

@ICantThinkofAnythingClever can I be your friend? Absolutely bang on the nail. Do I think Labour are perfect- no - they have a few MPs I would be happy to see the back of - however I suspect that most of them won't get a sniff of actual power.

I'm fed up of bouffant haired posh twerps and right wing bovver boys , all claiming big bucks on the public purse dictating the agenda. People like Gullis wouldn't have even got the job as tea boy with me . Do I think someone like Starmer and Yvette cooper will be way more capable and get the job done - yep - but within the considerable constraints they have. Do I think there will be honey for tea and unicorns for all - no- because the Tory's have trashed our credit rating , so cheap borrowing isn't on the agenda.

Even semi decent things the Tory's have looked at - social care payment limits, more help for childcare for those with young children, leaseholder rules- all delayed till past when an election was due - quite crafty I think as if Labour now withdraw them it makes them look like the baddies!

Couldn’t put it better. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

“Droves” in relation to other countries.

The below page lists the top 10 countries that high net worth individuals are immigrating to or emigrating from. The UK is third, behind China and India, for High Net Worth individuals leaving the country - I imagine we might be the highest on a per capita basis.

https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/henley-private-wealth-migration-report-2023/inflows-outflows

Henley Global identified Brexit as the biggest driver of this emigration.

😂😂😂

Come on, you can't be that forgetful. We have already discussed this at length and shown you what really happened

@frankentall we left - moderately high earners- we came back in 2022 but for practical family reasons- none of it was tax related. We left because we didn't like the general vibe and it was starting to feel like the wild west with regards to public services , lack of police, generally shambolic situation- our business too has a strong EU element to it.

There's quite a disparity between the actual 2022 figures and the estimates for 2023 I notice. Are these "high earners" as in employed people doing actual work or people like Russian kleptocrats just taking their ill gotten gains somewhere else?

You know you don't have to be poor to be a socialist, right? It's not a race to the bottom.

You might find this interesting.
In a way, asking if one can be a socialist and rich is like asking whether a women can be a feminist and a stay-at-home mum. Believing in a political or social value does not mean living your life like a monk, dedicating every minute to the cause. But it does mean that there must be some way in which the ultimate purpose of feminism or socialism, which is to further the cause of equality, is advanced.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/25/can-you-be-socialist-and-rich-google

https://www.adamsmith.org/news/applying-vat-to-independent-school-fees-could-cost-as-much-as-16-billion

The stats are not from just some random on mumsnet. According to further research from the Adam Smith think tank, the IFS’s research is based on the assumption only a limited amount of children will move from independent to state (they have assumed much less than 5% which is unrealistic, and as a matter of fact many won’t enter the sector at all). However only 10% need to leave for this policy not to have any benefit and if greater than 15% then the govt is left losing money (which means less money for things like the NHS, roads etc) whilst fucking up the education system for more people.

Two of my friend’s private reception class (different schools) has a grand total of 7 and 8 children due to falling enrolment in central London. They don’t think the school will survive any further drop in enrolments.

The footnotes explain that the 2023 forecasts were based on the Year To Date actuals as at June 2023.

I’d assume it’s business people and not Russian kleptocrats for a couple of reasons; Brexit is cited as the most common reason given by those emigrating (and Brexit would affect businesspeople doing business in the UK more than foreign nationals with accumulated wealth from overseas) and the UK is the only European country in the top 20 for outflows - so (in a European context) it’s a UK-only phenomenon.

BS MATE

I don't think you know much about politics bud.

There is a distinct lack of talent at the top of of our society. Those at the top appear to be overpaid and getting rich at the expense of the poorest in our society. If they want to fuck off, then they can.
There will be be a gap for others, probably more talented to move into, and they may have more compassion, and understanding of how a fairer society increases the wealth for all.

Or indeed facts.

It doesn’t work like that in a global market. We don’t have any where near enough STEM talent in this country. We also don’t value in demand skill sets. Globally - higher earners are over taxed and majorly underpaid comparatively.

An example, global role in tech. Recruiting in the UK 100k which you start hitting a marginal tax rate of 68% vs £250k in the USA and lower tax. The issue? People with in demand, global skill sets go. We aren’t an attractive country. Stay here to pay huge marginal taxes and support a majority of state dependents? Or move to another country where it isn’t the case and your skill set is rewarded comparatively. We don’t value talent in this country. Our extremely talented graduates in STEM who can name their price. They are privileged and should be happy paying some of the highest global tax rates in the world whilst supporting a low tax country because most don’t pay in.

It is why it’s a nightmare to recruit any decent talent right now. Companies are relocating their important roles to global offices to entice people to move.

I don’t think that is the case at all. You can’t just sod off abroad,other countries have their own well trained graduates and immigration controls.

The issues I have seen observing my STEM husband is too many over paid managers who have no skills and know Jack shit about what they’re managing. A la the post office. All they can do is ‘manage’ badly. They are over paid to do very little and don’t listen to those that are highly skilled, do the actual work and paid a lot less. They also don’t invest and are focused on saving money for share holders, then there is the outsourcing to cheaper countries eg India which can very difficult to work alongside….

You really can. What you are describing is completely the opposite to what I am seeing in engineering, software engineering and cyber engineering. Name your price if you’re any good. All skills which are essential nowadays. You have to be good though. If you are - opportunities a plenty. It’s not easy to recruit talent in the UK. Countries are crying out for these talents. Which is why they are allowing global companies to shift staff.

There is a distinct lack of talent at the top of of our society. Those at the top appear to be overpaid and getting rich at the expense of the poorest in our society. If they want to fuck off, then they can.

There will be be a gap for others, probably more talented to move into, and they may have more compassion, and understanding of how a fairer society increases the wealth for all.

This is such a short-sighted view. I worked in a part of investment banking that paid large bonuses (entirely unrelated to the global financial crisis before we deflect into that). My colleagues were talented, worked crazy hours and earned their wealth (directors earned 10% of all fees they brought in over a threshold). It was in a corporate environment with no link to 'getting rich at the expense of the poorest'.

We were all either qualified accountants or lawyers. The job involved complex financial modelling, knowledge of corporate law, negotiations with clients, counterparties, debt providers, institutional investors and the regulators, pitching to clients, detailed knowledge of regulations and the industry sector and numerous other things. Not sure I’d label this a “distinct lack of talent”.

It's not that easy for these 'rich' people to be replaced by the average man or woman on the street. My colleagues were highly paid because it's a small pool of people that (a) have this set of skills and (b) are willing to accept long hours and a lot of stress. Plenty of less well paid people work long hours but that doesn't mean they have the right set of skills for higher paid jobs either.

Under your plan, you end up with 'the rich' moving to the US where they're paid more and you lose their tax revenue. (There were no clever tax ploys, my colleagues paid income tax like everyone else). And that's before we get to compromising the UK's competitive position in investment banking services without the necessary talent and losing the corporation tax element too.

Per the Parliament stats: the top 5% of taxpayers were forecast to pay nearly 50% of all income tax in the last tax year and up to 28% for the top 1%. So if these "overpaid" people "fuck off" as you are encouraging them to do, frankly our country is fucked in terms of public finances. Or we could be grateful that some 'rich' people are putting millions into the tax revenue pot and encourage them to keep doing that for the benefit of wider society.

Many high earning IT contractors have moved abroad to avoid IR35 and are still doing the same job for the same employer as many can work from anywhere and can travel to occasional meetings easily enough when necessary. I have such clients who’ve moved abroad mainly to avoid IR35 and meaning the UK treasury lost tens of thousands of pounds in tax each year.

Look at the rumours of Tyson Fury relocating to Isle of Man - it’s not because he likes steam trains!

Look at the rumours of Tyson Fury relocating to Isle of Man - it’s not because he likes steam trains!😂

That is indeed very worrying - what will we do when all the misogynists take their skills in hitting people to the Isle of Man? The Tories really have ruined everything haven't they?

@wwhistleblower99 Agrees with you on the various jobs. My eldest is a front-end software engineer team leader, and his money is big.

With bonuses, we are talking £80k plus per year. He is happy at the company he is at right now, so he won't be moving company yet. He has been at this company for 2 years nearly.

He will give it another year and take a look at the job market in his field to see what's happening, etc. He may move on to pastures new. He may not.

He has always been able to name his price because he is good at what he does, as you say.

He is WFH, and so many of the www world are so you can be employed anywhere in the world. Yes, he can name his price. He is also a good troubleshooter within the whole system of where he is working.

A dear friend of mine is a dual citizen of U.K and Australia. She spends 4 months a year back home in Australia WFH.

So dependent on the job it's perfrctsble possible

I hate it when people talk politics from their arm chairs and think they know best. Im going to vote for who I personally want to get in not what anyone tells me. I would never ruin my ballot paper either. I will vote because women died for me to have that privilege.

OK, some great points there.

In what way is what happened in the 70's relevant now?

I'm not old enough to remember that, I am old enough to remember Thatcher and the Miners Strike.

I remember the complete poverty in the South Wales valleys.

I remember people in the mid-90's working for less than £1/hr.

I remember the joy and relief in 1997 when Labour got in - and they did improve things. They were not perfect by a long way, but things really did get better.

The current lot have just lunged from disaster to disaster - a lot of it of their own making, frankly.

Yes and more improtantly, Labour did leave England is a proper mess, a near-bankrupt staus. Just like Labour councils are going bankrupt in 2023 and 2024
🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭