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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Creepy neighbour - thoughts!?

406 replies

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 07:13

Hello! I had a strange encounter with a neighbour last week which made me feel very uncomfortable. I’m sure I’m right, but my mind will always minimise things/mitigate for people so I wanted to run the situation past others and see if your thoughts support mine!

Thursday, 1pm there’s a knock on my door, I don’t answer, they knock again, this time louder. I look out the window and see that it’s a fairly new neighbour who I’ve only met once or twice in passing and never really spoken to. He lives with his girlfriend and his child. I open the door and he says he’s sorry to bother me but do I have any sugar, he’s run out and really needs a coffee. I laugh and say “are you serious” because it seemed cliche. He says yes so I say ok sure and turn to go into the house and grab him some, except he follows me in and into my kitchen. He had brought a coffee with him and then helped himself opening drawers to find himself a spoon. He then said how it’s cool that we both work from home, what time do I have my lunches usually, suggesting essentially that we could have lunches at the same time. He told me he likes to draw and saw some of my artwork, then suggested we should do some drawing together sometime. All questions after this were the type that enabled him to get close and have physical contact - I like your rings, folllowed by holding my hand and leaning in close to look at them, I like your tattoos, followed by holding my wrist and arm and running his hand over them, what size are your ears stretched to, can I have a look, followed by moving in to look closely at my ears. After a while I said sorry you need to go, I have work to do, do you want to take some sugar with you - he said no that’s fine I’ll go to the shop later - the shop which is less than a minutes walk from his house. I thought the whole thing was weird but gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he is very over-familiar and lacking in self-awareness, and maybe he genuinely needed some sugar.

3pm - there’s a knock at the door again, and it’s him again. I go down there, he says sorry can I grab some more sugar, I say fine and again he follows me into the house, again helping himself to a spoon. The front door has been left open, I say I need to make sure my cat hasn’t run out and he tells me I can close the door. I do this so my cat doesn’t run out and then immediately start heaping sugar into a bowl so he can take it and just get out, in the middle of doing this he says hey can I look at your tattoo again and takes hold of my wrist, runs his hand over the tattoo again and slowly up my forearm. At this point I am kind of in a corner and I panic, pull away and say I really need to get on so here’s your sugar. I then march quickly to the front door to get it open and on the way out, he says by the way - you don’t need to tell your partner I came round. I say he already knows you’ve been here.

This is all really creepy, right!?

So I tell my partner all of this and how uncomfortable I felt and he’s furious. The next day, he sees my neighbour’s partner in the street and asks her for a word, says her boyfriend made me feel very uncomfortable in our house yesterday and can we have our sugar pot back. She is baffled - why was he in our house and why does he have our pot. He explains, she goes into their house and 20 minutes later, they are both on the doorstep and he is very politely apologising for making me feel uncomfortable and asking me to explain what he did that made me feel that way. This gets my back up straight away because he knows full well, and I tell him so. He denies saying that I didn’t need to tell my partner and tells me I’m overreacting. I tell him he’s gaslighting me, and that he’s a creep. I then ask his girlfriend if they had sugar at home yesterday - she tells me yes, they did. I tell him I have no idea what his intentions were but they did not originate in a place of honesty, he had sugar at home, an open door is not an invitation in, and his behaviour in my house/towards me was unnerving. I apologised to his partner because it can’t have been nice having someone stand there and call their fella a creep.

I’m right, right!!? I’m sure I am, but I’m such an overthinker, I’m overthinking myself into thinking I’ve gone overboard..

OP posts:
badatdecisions · 21/05/2024 22:28

This reply has been deleted

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Catsmere · 21/05/2024 22:28

namemane · 21/05/2024 15:13

Ring doorbell, chain.

He may just be a bit odd, wanting to make friends with new neighbours.

But there are a quite a few red flags here - repeat visit, invading personal space, touching, no need to tell my partner etc etc.

With a ring doorbell its possible for both you and your partner to have notifications, record visits, speak to the person at the door.

Hopefully this will be the last such visit, his partner will have had words and this will blow over.

Edited

There's no "may just be odd" here. You observed it yourself - he'd practised his lines, he used the same borrowing sugar line twice, he invaded OP's space and pawed her, he tried to stare her down when she stood up to him. None of what he did is innocent, it was the behaviour of a practised predator.

Catsmere · 21/05/2024 22:34

BurntBroccoli · 21/05/2024 20:54

@badatdecisions
You clearly haven't experienced this. When someone is this determined they rely upon the woman being too polite to say no.
I'm sure this man has done this before.

Yes, it's female socialisation. Be nice, be kind, do what men want. Don't be that nasty, disobedient woman. It's pervasive, it's the water we swim in, and it can make saying NO when put on the spot very difficult.

Bankholidayhelp · 21/05/2024 22:47

Another one saying flag with police. Ref Claire's Law, as I understand it (as explained by Alfie Moore the other week on his Radio 4 show ...) if you make the request and there is an 'issue' with him, the risk assessment the police do will inform a decision on who to release the information to - which may not be you, but could be his wife/girlfriend.

BurntBroccoli · 21/05/2024 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Unfortunately my situation was very much real.
I moved house because of it in the end.
It's quite terrifying and some people are very, very good at manipulation.

Ohthatoldchestnut · 22/05/2024 00:40

For any of those PPs who are victim blaming, please stop. Just... stop. Or maybe re-direct that energy to encourage the men in your lives to hold their fellow men to account for this sort of behaviour - like the OP's partner did.

Just remember this isn't some unknown man in an unfamiliar place. It was daytime and the OP was in her home that she shares with a partner - and he is a neighbour with a partner and child. So it's not remotely surprising that the OP's defences were not up at DEFCON1 because it was entirely reasonable for her to believe she should be fairly safe.

Now, we are all pretty aware that in reality the men most likely to harm us (and our children) are those that are known to us and are often socially perceived as "safe". But predators that like proximity have to be skilfully manipulative to get away with it. Plus, our conditioning will still often mean we miss those signs - especially as the man encroaches on our boundaries bit by bit in such a way that we question our perception of what is happening.

And when we do twig something's not right, we have been taught by the world to not rock the boat, that men are to be appeased - it takes some undoing to be able to override all this. And it takes some experience to know how to defend yourself safely (as no one really knows how they'll react until they've had that experience).

But you know what can fatally damage someone's confidence to override that conditioning and rely on their instincts to protect themselves? 1. The very rational fear of not being believed; and 2. knowing that you will be shamed for something you did or didn't do (which may or may not actually have any relevance to the situation - they usually find something...).

So whilst it is wise to take care of ourselves and to sensibly limit the openings these predators have - to the extent we can and without living every day in fear - if a man assaults you, the blame is unequivocally 100% on that man.

fatphalange · 22/05/2024 00:41

I'd report to the police all about how this stranger tricked his way into your house in order to touch you up, exactly how you've told us all here. Fucking creep!

Catsmere · 22/05/2024 00:54

Ohthatoldchestnut · 22/05/2024 00:40

For any of those PPs who are victim blaming, please stop. Just... stop. Or maybe re-direct that energy to encourage the men in your lives to hold their fellow men to account for this sort of behaviour - like the OP's partner did.

Just remember this isn't some unknown man in an unfamiliar place. It was daytime and the OP was in her home that she shares with a partner - and he is a neighbour with a partner and child. So it's not remotely surprising that the OP's defences were not up at DEFCON1 because it was entirely reasonable for her to believe she should be fairly safe.

Now, we are all pretty aware that in reality the men most likely to harm us (and our children) are those that are known to us and are often socially perceived as "safe". But predators that like proximity have to be skilfully manipulative to get away with it. Plus, our conditioning will still often mean we miss those signs - especially as the man encroaches on our boundaries bit by bit in such a way that we question our perception of what is happening.

And when we do twig something's not right, we have been taught by the world to not rock the boat, that men are to be appeased - it takes some undoing to be able to override all this. And it takes some experience to know how to defend yourself safely (as no one really knows how they'll react until they've had that experience).

But you know what can fatally damage someone's confidence to override that conditioning and rely on their instincts to protect themselves? 1. The very rational fear of not being believed; and 2. knowing that you will be shamed for something you did or didn't do (which may or may not actually have any relevance to the situation - they usually find something...).

So whilst it is wise to take care of ourselves and to sensibly limit the openings these predators have - to the extent we can and without living every day in fear - if a man assaults you, the blame is unequivocally 100% on that man.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Perfect post.

Motnight · 22/05/2024 06:13

Another humdinger of a thread where an Op asks for advice and gets a pile on because some posters just can't fathom anyone ever doing anything different to what they would do. Topped off by victim blaming and misogyny.

Op - sounds like you and your husband dealt with this perfectly. I hope that your neighbour leaves you alone now.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 22/05/2024 08:00

Ohthatoldchestnut · 22/05/2024 00:40

For any of those PPs who are victim blaming, please stop. Just... stop. Or maybe re-direct that energy to encourage the men in your lives to hold their fellow men to account for this sort of behaviour - like the OP's partner did.

Just remember this isn't some unknown man in an unfamiliar place. It was daytime and the OP was in her home that she shares with a partner - and he is a neighbour with a partner and child. So it's not remotely surprising that the OP's defences were not up at DEFCON1 because it was entirely reasonable for her to believe she should be fairly safe.

Now, we are all pretty aware that in reality the men most likely to harm us (and our children) are those that are known to us and are often socially perceived as "safe". But predators that like proximity have to be skilfully manipulative to get away with it. Plus, our conditioning will still often mean we miss those signs - especially as the man encroaches on our boundaries bit by bit in such a way that we question our perception of what is happening.

And when we do twig something's not right, we have been taught by the world to not rock the boat, that men are to be appeased - it takes some undoing to be able to override all this. And it takes some experience to know how to defend yourself safely (as no one really knows how they'll react until they've had that experience).

But you know what can fatally damage someone's confidence to override that conditioning and rely on their instincts to protect themselves? 1. The very rational fear of not being believed; and 2. knowing that you will be shamed for something you did or didn't do (which may or may not actually have any relevance to the situation - they usually find something...).

So whilst it is wise to take care of ourselves and to sensibly limit the openings these predators have - to the extent we can and without living every day in fear - if a man assaults you, the blame is unequivocally 100% on that man.

Thank you! ❤️ this is spot on.

OP posts:
Noirdesir · 22/05/2024 08:06

You've done excellently OP- agree with PP that he was testing you with his actions to see how far he could push it. Ring doorbell and definitely report to the police. Dont ever answer the door to him ever again no matter what he says.

also PLEASE read the book "the gift of fear" by Gavin De Becker- its an excellent book on staying safe, trusting your instincts and it will explain exactly what he did, why he did it and how your own reactions kept you safe in this scenario. I think all women should read that book. (apologies if this has already been suggested, haven't read all the replies)

GOTBrienne · 22/05/2024 08:16

Unbelievable. Like others said CCTV or ring doorbell, whatever it is make it very obvious so he can see.
If he knocks on the door again I’d only answer from an upstairs window and say you are on a workcall and DH is home soon so he will come and help him.
Sounds like a massive creep though.

silentassassin · 22/05/2024 08:22

He may just be a bit odd, wanting to make friends with new neighbours

Sorry but no. I hate when people pull out the "he might be lonely and just wanting a friend" card. No. If he has any sense about him he'd start by getting to know OP's male partner, not trying to coerce/force his way into a house when a woman is on her own under the pretence of needing sugar which was a flat out lie. Why would he then keep touching her? I dont touch strangers in an effort to make friends. Why is it that he can only make friends with young women? why cant he go and befriend some elderly neighbours or male neighbours? This isnt about making friends, he's a predator. Its as clear as day.

If he genuinely wanted to make friends he wouldnt only be targeting the OP.

AngryBird6122 · 22/05/2024 08:31

cameras (ideally one inside the hallway too but expensive I know)
police 101
landlord
warning other neighbours

he’s banking on you keeping quiet

Sorry you experienced this 😡sounds just horrible

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 22/05/2024 08:49

Noirdesir · 22/05/2024 08:06

You've done excellently OP- agree with PP that he was testing you with his actions to see how far he could push it. Ring doorbell and definitely report to the police. Dont ever answer the door to him ever again no matter what he says.

also PLEASE read the book "the gift of fear" by Gavin De Becker- its an excellent book on staying safe, trusting your instincts and it will explain exactly what he did, why he did it and how your own reactions kept you safe in this scenario. I think all women should read that book. (apologies if this has already been suggested, haven't read all the replies)

Edited

Thank you! ❤️ yes - “The Gift of Fear” was mentioned somewhere else - I will definitely look for this.

OP posts:
Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 22/05/2024 08:56

silentassassin · 22/05/2024 08:22

He may just be a bit odd, wanting to make friends with new neighbours

Sorry but no. I hate when people pull out the "he might be lonely and just wanting a friend" card. No. If he has any sense about him he'd start by getting to know OP's male partner, not trying to coerce/force his way into a house when a woman is on her own under the pretence of needing sugar which was a flat out lie. Why would he then keep touching her? I dont touch strangers in an effort to make friends. Why is it that he can only make friends with young women? why cant he go and befriend some elderly neighbours or male neighbours? This isnt about making friends, he's a predator. Its as clear as day.

If he genuinely wanted to make friends he wouldnt only be targeting the OP.

Exactly this - while he was in my house I was constantly asking myself “what’s he up to, does he really need this sugar, is he bored/lonely/going a weird way about trying to make a friend, where is he going with this” etc. If he’d been looking to be a friend he wouldn’t have told me not to tell my partner he’d been round, he wouldn’t have been suggesting we get together to do some drawing sometime or figuring out whether I have a set lunch break every day or focusing his attentions on physical aspects enabling contact such as my tattoos, rings etc, he would have been talking about his partner/my partner, maybe suggesting we all do something together. Everything was so off but not in the outwardly and obviously aggressive way that I’ve experienced and felt able to manage in the past, this felt like an intensive grooming session with an absolute smarm.

OP posts:
MaidOfBondStreet · 22/05/2024 08:56

imnotsickbutimnotwell · 21/05/2024 07:28

Why did you let him in twice? If I didn’t know him I would have said “sorry no sugar but the shop sells it”. Get a video doorbell! Don’t answer the door to him again.

The door was open for the cat

@Chael86 well done for telling your bf and telling the neighbours partner. What a fucking creepy would be rapist.

Get a cat flap. I'd be very worried having been in this position before

Jhgdsd · 22/05/2024 09:07

The staring you down was a combination of both intimidation and fury.
He is absolutely a dangerous predator.
I really hope you report this and stress the trying to intimidate you by staring you down. Completely unbelievable to me that this is his first time doing something like this.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 22/05/2024 09:17

These assholes will do it in plain sight of others, too, they can be that confident. When we were 15-17, a friend's dad would always hug me in a friendly way, usually in the kitchen. He was Irish and would be singing Irish ditties at the same time. At a casual glance, you would think he was just being friendly, but his hugs almost inevitably included having an erect penis pressed hard against you. His daughter or wife would just as likely also be in the room, and not realise. Creep. I later found out that at least one other teen had exactly the same experience with him. I always thought about telling his daughter but I never did, nor do I think she would believe it.

WickedSerious · 22/05/2024 09:21

Motnight · 22/05/2024 06:13

Another humdinger of a thread where an Op asks for advice and gets a pile on because some posters just can't fathom anyone ever doing anything different to what they would do. Topped off by victim blaming and misogyny.

Op - sounds like you and your husband dealt with this perfectly. I hope that your neighbour leaves you alone now.

They won't be happy until the OP comes back and tells us she's gone ninja on his arse.

FOJN · 22/05/2024 09:31

Motnight · 22/05/2024 06:13

Another humdinger of a thread where an Op asks for advice and gets a pile on because some posters just can't fathom anyone ever doing anything different to what they would do. Topped off by victim blaming and misogyny.

Op - sounds like you and your husband dealt with this perfectly. I hope that your neighbour leaves you alone now.

I think it's people who imagine they would have responded differently without relating it to situations where they have been caught out by people transgressing boundaries and we're unsure about how to react.

Taking action to challenge or prevent boundary trampling behaviour requires us to be able to anticipate what someone else might do. If you have healthy boundaries and respect for other people then your imagination doesn't automatically go to worst case scenario, particularly for people we are acquainted with, even though the stats tell us that people we know are a greater to risk to us.

One of my neighbours popped round to borrow something, I left her standing in the porch whilst I went to see if I had what she needed but when I came back she was standing in my hallway. I would never do that so I did not think I needed to close and lock the door whilst I was looking for the item she needed. I wonder how many people would actually do that to a neighbour. This thread has been useful for me because I realise it's better to be thought of as weird and/or rude than give a predator the opportunity to walk into my home.

The OP might have felt unsure in the moment but she handled things really well, probably better than many of the victim blamers would have done. I'm left with a feeling of there but for the grace of god etc....

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 22/05/2024 09:40

FOJN · 22/05/2024 09:31

I think it's people who imagine they would have responded differently without relating it to situations where they have been caught out by people transgressing boundaries and we're unsure about how to react.

Taking action to challenge or prevent boundary trampling behaviour requires us to be able to anticipate what someone else might do. If you have healthy boundaries and respect for other people then your imagination doesn't automatically go to worst case scenario, particularly for people we are acquainted with, even though the stats tell us that people we know are a greater to risk to us.

One of my neighbours popped round to borrow something, I left her standing in the porch whilst I went to see if I had what she needed but when I came back she was standing in my hallway. I would never do that so I did not think I needed to close and lock the door whilst I was looking for the item she needed. I wonder how many people would actually do that to a neighbour. This thread has been useful for me because I realise it's better to be thought of as weird and/or rude than give a predator the opportunity to walk into my home.

The OP might have felt unsure in the moment but she handled things really well, probably better than many of the victim blamers would have done. I'm left with a feeling of there but for the grace of god etc....

Thank you! I agree - wandering into someone’s home etc is just not something I would do. We have lovely neighbours attached to us that we have known for 8 years now, but I still would not just waltz into their home without an explicit invitation to do so.

OP posts:
Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 22/05/2024 10:21

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread - you have really helped me get my head around and articulate the whole thing, the creep’s behaviour as well as my own! I am sure it will have been helpful for others, too. ❤️

OP posts:
Jhgdsd · 22/05/2024 10:45

I put myself in danger years ago and at the time I just remember the hair standing up on my neck, a first, and just knew I needed to exit quickly and safely.

I still ask myself what was I thinking, so naive. In the moment it is definitely possible to be discombobulated. Most of us learn from it and wouldn't put ourselves in that position again.
Others are not so lucky to their cost.
Books like the Gift of Fear are so valuable.
You did well OP. You have handled well and learnt from this. Well done.

namemane · 22/05/2024 11:16

Catsmere · 21/05/2024 22:28

There's no "may just be odd" here. You observed it yourself - he'd practised his lines, he used the same borrowing sugar line twice, he invaded OP's space and pawed her, he tried to stare her down when she stood up to him. None of what he did is innocent, it was the behaviour of a practised predator.

You’re right - I was too kind, too much benefit of the doubt in the first part of my response.