To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

[Luxell934]

I've read about two very young babies dying in nurseries recently. One who choked after being given inappropriate food and one who was left to smother to death.

As a new mother it's absolutely terrifying to think about, I have also worked myself in nurseries for a number of years. It was a very well respected chain of nurseries and we were always understaffed and over ratio, I remember caring for up to 9 babies with just two staff and were told team leaders were "in the office, if needed" which basically meant get on with it and don't bother us. I also remember feeding 4/5 babies at a time. Looking back I was so young that I didn't speak up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13438725/Nursery-nurse-Kate-Roughley-manslaughter-convicted.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqennjjllpqo

Utter bollocks in many cases. My son was really held back by childminders, and really thrived at nursery. He was ready way before 3. Nothing ‘poor babies’ about it if you have a good nursery.

I would love to spend all day with my children but I need to work. They love nursery. There are multiple staff members there each day so if one was doing harm then it would get noticed in a way it wouldn’t at a childminder (but I imagine most childminders are lovely).
don’t imply that I don’t care about the safety of my children by putting them in nursery.

That’s why I said “generally”.

@Luxell934

I think there are good nurseries and bad nurseries. I work in one (we don’t have very young) - but I wouldn’t send my child there. And I regret sending my DD when she was 10 months old (different nursery).
The nursery I work in is very highly regarded, and did very well in a recent inspection - where staff ratios were suddenly upped and lots of lovely activities set out.
On a day to day, I regularly see dangerous behaviour, broken resources, unsatisfactory ratios, food not cut up. The one time I reported safety issues, I got shouted at. I don’t want to lose my job.

I’m old enough to see the outcomes and my DDs and their peers are now in their mid to late 20s. They were lucky enough to have a very high staff ratio in an LEA nursery (now closed down due to cuts).

No a good nursery will not emotionally or intellectually stunt children. Personally I trusted them more than a childminder. None of the staff were teens and all were qualified. There were stimulating and interesting things to do and there was a fabulous garden.

My children and the ones I still know they are all kind well rounded people. Many with long term partners. One is a GP, one a vet, a nurse, a scientist, an artist and the others have jobs in marketing/comms/media execs in London.

I also had concerns with one of our childminders. We could see she was on fb all day not watching the kids, we saw she used second hand free car seats, her cat also badly scratched my son’s face. Let alone all the holding back in his development etc (eg tv on all day). It’s a really tough decision for parents. After our experience, we would never go for a childminder again and are confident in sending DC2 to nursery. We’ve been very pleased with them.

I work in a nursery in the baby room. We are safe. We do all risk assessments we meet their needs and we don’t put them in danger. That being said I have a 2 year old and she will stay at her childminders until she is school age because I don’t like the nursery routine but it has 0 to do with safety.

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

I think some will benefit from reading this article.

I’ve logged on this morning and seen the answer to my question was yes - glad the tragic death of a much-loved daughter provided such a great opportunity for some of you to get out your cloths to polish your “Best Mum” trophies.

My children loved/love nursery. I know they are safe and judging all nurseries based on two accidents is a bit simplistic (and daft). Would you say crossing the street is unsafe just because someone got run over while doing so somewhere, at some point?

I don't know how babies can develop strong attachments in a nursery setting & it worries me that kids in the future won't know how to bond and/or develop secure relationships with others.

It was the government that was tasked with pushing the 'idea' that nurseries are good for children from way back mainly because they wanted more people going to work.

Absolutely awful cases but they are reported because of how horrific and rare they are.

We stick to 1:3 ratio, sometimes it is higher. Our baby room staff have been there many years so have cared for siblings and know our parents very well. They are all first aid trained, level 3 trained and have specialist baby care training. All our rooms are visible from other rooms and staff will always help out another room if needed. The majority of nurseries are safe.

You work in a safe and lovely nursery and yet your dd goes to a CM. Why? It can’t be that great or you would choose the same for your child.

I will get flamed for stating this.

With DD I almost chose to continue with my career. I could see nursery wasn’t working and she was very unsettled - almost ‘wired’. I stopped nursery, quit my job and spent a year with her. Her behaviour/unsettled-ness dramatically improved. She started school, then I got asked back to work - involved breakfast/after school clubs. She deteriorated again.

I then changed my hours so I could be there for drop off pick up.
I then had DS.
No nursery, preschool at age 3. I didn’t go back to work. He’s always been happy/well settled. I’m now back at work but only doing hours which mean I’m always there for drop off/pick up and holidays.
I don’t have the best house, car, holidays - we have to be very careful with money. I could have done much better in my career. But I’ve had the time to spend with them and I think they are better for it.

i do think nursery isn’t the best place for under 2s, that said I’m sure there are some lovely ones. However I do think there’s huge pressure to ‘push’ development and ‘achieve’ when all they should do is care for babies that young. So much pressure on non blended food and self feeding etc could be to blame for the choking, giving him lumps too soon, along with feeding too many babies over ratio. The smothering just made me feel sick, that woman was evil. To just ignore a screaming baby like that and not check on them for 97 MINUTES! Absolutely dispicable!

Do nurseries offer a live camera feed for parents to log into?

I viewed a couple of nurseries that were horrendous, rooms full of small babies that didn’t look like they were getting anything like the amount of care they should be.

DD goes to a small private nursery that doesn’t take any child before 2 as the owner, who was previously a childminder, doesn’t agree with putting young babies in a group setting. I would agree that I wouldn’t send mine below 2 unless there were no other choices as I feel like babies need a different type of environment. I would prefer to use a childminder if I wasn’t able to work around childcare.

My DD loves nursery and goes 15 hours a week but by the time you get a few months into school the children who went and who didn’t all blend into one, so I think the socialisation aspect is a load of rubbish personally.

I agree with this. We chose a nursery setting as there was a dedicated baby room. We didn't want our baby spending lots of time in the pram on the school run.

Are nursery workers not regulated in England? I’m pretty sure they are in Scotland.

You could obviously afford it but many can't so don't see the point of your post?

So the baby was more or less tortured. Strapped face down to a bean bag so it couldn't breathe. And died. I hope they throw away the key.

Most are probably safe but research shows babies benefit from 1:1 care until c 2 years so best avoided if you can.

My eldest definitely wouldn’t have coped in more childcare. Both mine did/do 3 days. But I never leave them there until closing and get them around 5.

Anecdotally my own experience of friends etc is the ones who have children in FT childcare seem to struggle the most with parenting. I think their kids struggle to slow down at home, so they use screens a lot and then struggle with self regulation.

@Runnerinthenight there were just two staff in the baby room looking after eleven babies that day. You can imagine the chaos, the other member of staff could well have been rushed off their feet doing feeds and nappy changes and tragically a silent child was overlooked. I think the nursery owners should be charged for allowing an illegal and dangerous situation to regularly happen, the article I read said they were often dealing with huge baby to staff ratios.

@pootlin the ones I’ve used haven’t.