To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

[Luxell934]

I've read about two very young babies dying in nurseries recently. One who choked after being given inappropriate food and one who was left to smother to death.

As a new mother it's absolutely terrifying to think about, I have also worked myself in nurseries for a number of years. It was a very well respected chain of nurseries and we were always understaffed and over ratio, I remember caring for up to 9 babies with just two staff and were told team leaders were "in the office, if needed" which basically meant get on with it and don't bother us. I also remember feeding 4/5 babies at a time. Looking back I was so young that I didn't speak up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13438725/Nursery-nurse-Kate-Roughley-manslaughter-convicted.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqennjjllpqo

Just what I have said.

You're not going to get the "brilliant childminder with only a couple of other children". They fill up all their places for economic reasons.

There were many days mine didn't want to leave because they were engrossed in play, so I had to wait! But I used the time to get to know the staff, which was reassuring.

Once I had signed the contract, evil CM never let me in the door again. She delivered my children to the door. She left them watching Neighbours while she made her family's dinner and if she was eating, she sent her husband to see my kids out.

i agree with safety in numbers, more witnesses, so it absolutely breaks my heart that the baby girl was left to cry, strapped in, face down, under covers for 90 minutes.
other staff turned a blind eye, or maybe it happens so regularly that they didn’t expect this tragedy. Which is even worse as it’s not a one off, other staff are not safeguarding the children as they should

It's unconscionable. Surely the staff who turned a blind eye should also be charged?

It's still not clear though why they were using bean bags to put babies under a year to sleep on..this is a really big risk..and obviously other employees didn't comment or notice either so it was routine ? Lots of nurseries do a great job in very difficult circumstances but surely there needs to be clearer regulations about this type of thing ?

Isn't the same true for childminders, and nannies?

I was incredibly lucky after my son was born & it was time for me to return to work, my auntie minded him & when he turned three it was time for his 2 free years of playschool, again I landed on my feet because it was just around the corner from my aunties & literally over the wall from my school

I can't imagine how difficult (&costly!) this period of my life would have been if I didn't have these options?? I'd be worrying all day if he was crying when I dropped him off, or wondering if he's wet or blah, blah , blah ... so any parents who have had to do this I salute you because it can't have been easy, no matter how great the creches were/are

I was replying to the person who downplayed it was only two in millions of children being cared for by nurseries.

The OP made a blanket statement that nurseries are unsafe. I'm pointing out how vanishingly rare these cases are. Of course it's tragic, of course it's terrible for the families that are involved. But overall, it doesn't mean that these places are dangerous.

it Is odd. The nurseries I visited between 6 and 8 years ago, were pretty clear they used cots with no blankets or soft toys.
I’ve never even heard of a bean bag for sleeping. We had one at home but the safety instructions were clear- it was not a sleeping aid, and babies were not left unattended for risk of suffocation. Probably not the safest item for a baby room (for sleeping or not) if babies can’t be continuously supervised 1 on 1

I would have raised this as a concern if I saw a baby sleeping on it. Now I know, I would also question why there was a bean bag in the room.

That poor little baby. Breaks my heart.

I’m curious to know if the child was tearful at pick up

It says that she seemed happy and to have had a good day at pick up, but the cctv told a different story.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/jury-trial-nursery-worker-accused-29190357.amp

Different children, different needs

your children sounded like mine at the childminder - i waited at the door for a while, usually stood talking to one or two parents who collected at the same. One of the parents knew who the CM personally. The children would come out beaming as though they’d been on a day long play date with their best friends. The CM’s older children went to school with the other mindees’ older children so they all got on with really well. Younger siblings then used to the CM so everyone got to know each other.
we still see the CM now as her children do similar clubs and activities to mine, also similar age groups. she is one of the calmest, friendliest person you’ll meet

i was very lucky with the childminder who suited my child. She took them out to playgroups, soft play, local parks so they had opportunities to meet other children too.

when comparing to the nursery, each of my children went to different nurseries and unfortunately neither were happy there.

the photos they took from nurseries were sad. They were withdrawn. They would come to me and sob so it was heartbreaking too collect them and drop them off in that state.

I thought my youngest would prefer to be in a nursery as they were lively and sociable. We tried it until the CM had availability (until my eldest started school nursery) and they were honestly a different child at pick up and drop off.

my friend still uses the same CM during the holidays for school age children and they still love going

sorry for your evil CM experience - but I think if you are able to spot any red flags and ask the right questions , you are making sure your child is in the best place

Your baby will probably be perfectly safe at the vast majority of nurseries: I wouldn’t worry; nurseries are safe places. However, nurseries are really not the best environment for a baby’s social and emotional development, especially in the first few years of life. No nursery environment can replicate the 1-1 care that a loving, nurturing caregiver (whether mother, father, grandparent or some other primary caregiver) can give in a real-life, home environment. This idea isn’t radical or novel, but rooted in research that supports it. But you don’t really need to refer to research, it’s also just common sense when you think about it.

@Runnerinthenight unless all the other staff were minors themselves!

Nurseries have ratios but imagine most don't stick to them. When I used to pick my kids up there were babies sat in the office area because parents were late at lunch time but they had other kids coming in so meant ratios were compromised because parents didn't pick their kids up on time

After our experience with DC1, we wouldn’t use childminders again and will be sending DC2 to nursery at 11 months. We trust them completely, they’ve been fantastic with DC1. And obv some of us have to go back to work. Both my companies have clauses that say I need to go back, otherwise I have to pay back my mat pay.

This. People may already find sending their child to nursery tough and have mum guilt. Threads like this highlighting the very worst of things and suggesting danger really really don't help.

You will get a pile on op for daring to start a thread like this, because too many of us are forced to work and some of us shouldn’t have had dc in the first place if we find dc ‘boring’ - of course babies are not safe in nurseries, nor any young child. They are busy, frantic places full of underpaid, mostly undervalued staff with a very high turnover. If we are aiming to offer our babies secure attachments in safe environments we should be doing much more as a society to support keeping a parent at home for longer.

I think the tragic case of Genevieve does raise questions about what Ofsted could be doing to raise standards and inspect more. On the day she died, there were just two staff looking after 11 babies. The day before, two staff were looking after 16 babies!! https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/20/nursery-death-of-baby-genevieve-meehan-raises-troubling-questions

If there were more inspections - and more ad-hoc, unannounced inspections - would nursery owners be less likely to push boundaries on ratios like this? The government will say there is no money to do this. But how many millions are they spending on sending a handful of people to Rwanda? Once again our children are not the priority.

How many of us could provide good or even safe care to eight babies each, ten hours a day, with presumably no break?

It is the same for childminders, nannies, care home assistants and dog walkers. I wouldn’t allow anyone who is vulnerable (nonverbal child, animal, or elderly) to be looked after by people who need no qualifications and paid minimum wage.

people aren’t in the jobs for the love of it, they are in it to get paid. Some will be good nice people, others won’t be. I wouldn’t take the risk.

the answer is to require more qualifications for these jobs and then in turn to pay more.

But paying people a pittance to care for our most vulnerable is the root to these problems,

.

I agree that nurseries are not the best environment for babies or young toddlers. My 2 went from 18 months 2 days a week because I had to work, but I never felt at ease with it. They wouldn’t have gone until preschool age if I’d had the choice. It’s not possible to provide adequate care imo when 1 person is responsible for multiple babies. Is it unsafe? No, I think the majority are safe in terms of keeping them safe from physical harm. Do they provide the best care? No, I don’t think they do .

I completely agree.

Well from what I've read, babies don't get anything positive from nursery until they're 3 and even then, not all day, 5 days a week.
It's capitalism that has promoted it as a good idea. Think how much money is being made from it. Poor babies.

Absolutely, I hate the socialisation myth. The amount of times I've heard that said shows how clueless many are about child development.