To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

[Luxell934]

I've read about two very young babies dying in nurseries recently. One who choked after being given inappropriate food and one who was left to smother to death.

As a new mother it's absolutely terrifying to think about, I have also worked myself in nurseries for a number of years. It was a very well respected chain of nurseries and we were always understaffed and over ratio, I remember caring for up to 9 babies with just two staff and were told team leaders were "in the office, if needed" which basically meant get on with it and don't bother us. I also remember feeding 4/5 babies at a time. Looking back I was so young that I didn't speak up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13438725/Nursery-nurse-Kate-Roughley-manslaughter-convicted.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqennjjllpqo

My child started going to nursery full time Mon to Fri from the age of just over 10 months old. I feel immensely grateful to all staff at his nursery. He's thriving. All of them are just amazing. I don't expect development or social skills and etc. from nursery. All I want from his nursery is providing my child with a safe environment. That's it. I see his nusery as my coparenting partner and they're doing a wonderful job, far far better than what I could have done.

It is not about making working mothers feeling guilty! It is about shining light on Nursery's in general.
You drop your child at the door and they are left with mostly unqualified staff, staff who are young & in experienced.

In my personal experience of being in a nursery setting, I would never send my child.
Staff were rude not only to fellow colleagues but children also. Rough in manner and lacking all empathy. Not all is true on the update app they personally send you ' Ben ate all his food' = He hardly ate, we didn't encourage him because we couldn't be arsed.'
What I saw with my own eyes was disgusting. Needless to say, I removed myself from the work place, had a conversation with the manager and learnt months later that this 'well known' nursery was rated inadequate!

Yes, the workers work hard, they earn very little for so much work to be done throughout the day. They are not going to be bright as button's after burnout. They only put on a happy face when meeting parents.

On a small scale you get the one adult that generally as a passion for working with children, sadly they push the good ones away.

The news story is beyond tragic. It should never had happened

I believe that the situation will only get worse. Too many children now, what with the free funding roll out and not enough eyes on the ball!

99.9% of nursery staff are brilliant at what they do, and provide excellent care, and as someone up thread says, it's two (very tragic) cases out of millions of children who attend nursery every day, so I don't think it's fair to say nurseries are unsafe environments for children.

I've seen this on here a lot, and honestly we used a childminder and had the most incredible experience, she was amazing and my little girl really thrived with her so that really wasn't my experience.

Sometimes, babies will be involved in tragic accidents which could have happened anywhere. Sometimes, the standard of care in nurseries will fall below inadequate and into very unsaI worked supply in a number of nurseries and they were all very careful to ensure that the ratio was correct. If one person needed to leave the room, they'd wait until another person came back- even if it was just to pop to the office to get something.

My daughter (Covid baby, limited interaction with other children at that point) started nursery at 14 months, absolutely loved it and had a rapid spurt in development.

Absolutely agree. I think only people with experience working in nurseries realise how inexperienced a lot of the staff can be too, and quite how little time there is for each child.

Having worked across a number of nurseries, I would never, ever put my own baby in one, were I to ever have children again.

I consider myself very lucky that a) I didn’t have to deliver my babies in a UK hospital, and b) I was able to stay at home with my DC past the baby stage, because I didn’t live in the uk when my DC were small.

I think the real question here is “why?”

Why is UK maternity care so bad?
Why is our cost of living so high, our accommodation so costly, that it takes 2 adults to put a roof over your head, and it’s not an option to stay at home longer to look after your babies?
Why is childcare so expensive, but the people working there, are earning NMW?
Why is it that this country does not have a better set up for 0-5 years, the future of our country.

Indeed. One of the branches I worked in was staffed by mostly inexperienced teengers (they were cheap) who quite often just didn't give a shit/like to stand around and gossip/ignore the kids. One dad bought his little girl in for the first time (she was about maybe 7 months old) and the nursery worker put her on a playmat and just left her there, saying "bye bye daddy, see you later!", then promptly turned around and walked off. The poor dad looked utterly torn, so stopped what I was doing and promptly scooped her up (which we were'nt supposed to do - children "aren't to be picked up and need to learn to be independant") but I didn't give a shit about the stupid no pick-up rule then, the poor little thing was sobbing her heart out. That was just one instance in a daily does of instances across numerous nurseries I banked at.

99.9% of nursery staff are brilliant at what they do, and provide excellent care

Unlikely! Much more likely - like any other job - to be a normal distribution, where most are perfectly average, a few are brilliant and a few are awful. Just like anything else: teachers, doctors, accountants, whatever. Unfortunately for these poor parents, they encountered someone at the far tail.

Totally agree. Reading Genevieve's story was just so heartbreaking and frustrating at the same time. I don't understand why nobody else decided to check on her in the 90 minutes she was left unattended essentially.
My DD goes to nursery 3 sessions a week and all children are checked for the whole of nap time. DD is 2 and doesn't usually have a nap but I'd be more than happy for her to have one if she needed as she would be well looked after.

i personally don't think babies benefit from nurseries up until 2-2.5yrs old. Nursery is a necessity for the parents to be able to work.

I have viewed quite a few good and outstanding nurseries and opted for a nanny until my DC crossed 2 yrs old line; I found the nurseries quite underwhelming and nursery heads unconvincing.

I'd say that exact 99% are there as they didn't manage to find anything else; very far from brilliant.

And this is exactly why I never chose to leave my babies at a nursery setting. It was personal choice, I know that lots of mums have no qualms over it but IMHO babies under the age of 1 should be with me, their mum. I don't know what the fuck might happen once I walk out of the door at nursery and they're too young to ask for help. It's sickening what that evil woman did - fucking sickening. Poor baby

I work in a huge nursery, we can have upto 36 babies a day across 2 huge rooms and I can hand on heart say the babies are safe. Out of all the staff, we are all first aid trained, follow our policies 100% and follow safe sleep guidance. We do a lockdown procedure every 3 months incase we ever need it, and fire drills once a month. Emotionally yes there are times which are hard for both the staff and the babies as a 1:3 ratio can be hard but never has their safety been jeopardised due to this.

It makes me sad to see mums nervous to put their children in nurseries but I also can’t talk for every other setting out there.

Surely it's understandable for parents to be nervous given the (thankfully rare) recent cases? They weren't just neglect.

Incidentally, what is the plan to remove so many babies in the event of a fire?

Thanks for sharing this and thank you for your hard work.

If we’re being honest even those of us at home with our babies aren’t there 100% emotionally. Especially with any additional children. When I had my second someone told me to go to the one who could be sorted the quickest first it was great advice.

I had the ‘luxury’ (as it is now) of being able to stay at home with mine until they started preschool at 3. So I was a bit dubious about Gdcs going to nursery from 9 or 12 months, but they loved it there, and thrived. And from 2 or so, IMO it’s very good for learning to share, take turns, etc. My Gdcs have all loved their nurseries/preschool, with so many different activities (inc. forest school) that are often not easy to achieve at home. The 2 elder moved very happily and seamlessly into reception, and I have no doubt that no. 3 will be the same in September.

In theory 3 babies can be briefly carried at once in an emergency (one on each hip, other on front) but in reality that only works if staff aren't too overweight.

A bit of a sweeping statement. Many years ago a friend of mine had her second baby die in his cot. She had done nothing wrong, but felt guilty all the time I knew her that she had not gone up in response to his crying - which we all do. Cot deaths are nothing whatsoever to do with what happened to the 9mth old being smothered, where the caregiver actively harmed the child - it's manslaughter, she did not intend to kill but she was reckless as to her actions.

My child started nursery at 14 months and absolutely loves it. Literally runs towards entrance every morning. We’ve never had tears at drop off or pick up. She lights up seeing the staff. There doesn’t seem to be much/any turn over. There is a huge garden where they go play whenever it’s not miserable out. Lots of cool activities/messy play. Staff seem genuinely fond of her. Biggest selling point for me was that nursery managers DS is in same room as my DC as felt they clearly trust their staff with their own child.

Similarly to others I felt childminder and nanny didn’t offer any accountability to other adults.

The nursery that our DD went to, they had a few cots on wheels that were dedicated 'in the event of emergency' cots - they would load them up and push them out through the double doors. It was a ground floor purpose built type building too and each room had a door that the kids could access the garden so it wasn't a big concern for us

I hope she gets a really heavy sentence. No less than 20 years. I find the whole thing totally horrific. How could anybody in their right mind do this to a baby. She should have been nowhere near children. Never mind a manager in a nursery.

Thanks to Mumsnet this is a worry I have in my own home, when DH works away and I’m alone with my children. I used to sleep with a carrier next to the bed so I could wear the baby and carry the toddler.

Youve just made me realise that at 5, the older one would be able to follow instructions atleast.

Staff make the nursery. My own observations are that an experienced, strong, room lead sets the tone for the rest of the staff.

In my children’s nursery the baby room just didn’t have that lead and you could tell the staff totally lacked any passion.

But the toddler and preschool room have amazing leads and the staff either don’t gel and leave or settle in with them. The staff in the toddler room are just fantastic. They just ooze enthusiasm. The preschool room lead used to care for who is now her boss (family business) when they were children, which is a great testament.

I visited one nursery where the managers enthusiasm for the kids was totally lacking, she tried to say hello to one, affectionately, but one of the room staff corrected her as she’d got the child’s name wrong.