To think that men get a ridiculously bad rap on this site?

[MsLuxLisbon]

It is really depressing to read post after post after post knocking men, saying how awful and useless they are, saying they are mostly lazy, selfish sex pests, etc. That has not only not been my experience, but it hasn't been ANY of my friends' or family's, either. The odd bad man, sure, just as my male friends have dated bad women. But not enough to justify this bizarre generalisation.

NAMALT, feminazis… that internalised misogyny is quite something.

I’m sure the OP is basking in the satisfied glow of being Not Like Other Girls as she dismisses other women’s experiences and “gently” suggests they look to themselves for reasons the men in their lives abuse them.

The partner who stays at home always seems to get the shitty end of the stick eventually? It's just ingrained in both sexes that if you make £££ you're the boss. Not sure what the answer is short of a revolution.

Because some posters are actually sensible.

Yes but I’m sure if men had a board where they could talk about awful wives im sure there’d be plenty. I think in general there’s a good mix?

I was going to post similar.

The Internalised misogyny is absolutely screaming from the rooftops in each of the OPs posts.

I almost can't quite believe it's for real.

Thank you. Although I should say that I can't speak for all men. I would hope that more men are closer to my thinking as the generations shift but it's hard to shake ingrained habits 1000's of years in the making.

Nobody is saying all men are rapists or abusive, but the proportion of men who are is higher than you'd think, especially when you're younger and have less experience of them. The prison figures only reflect the conviction rate, and we all know how poor that is in relation to crimes like rape. Most domestic violence goes unreported and unpunished. There was a research study recently which reported that something like 10% of men said they would abuse a child if they could be absolutely sure it would never be found out.

When I was in my 20s I'd have said my male friends were all stand up guys who respected women and loved their partners - fast forward to my 50s and a significant number of them have cheated on their partners, abandoned their kids, and tried to shaft their wives financially in the divorce. One got barred from his profession for gross misconduct. There's nothing similar among my female friends.

Not all men, but a much bigger proportion of them than you obviously care to consider. And given that people are much more likely to post on MN about their negative experiences because they need support and advice, the dynamic of the site is easily explained.

If you think men are getting a hard time on here I dare you to go any part of the internet dominated by men.

Just go anywhere on the internet and you can see men war mongering, men murdering pillaging, raping - all of it. A few posts on here are a reflection of that - men are a global problem. More men need to do something about it.
Be better. Call the crap ones out, support the people they hurt. Whining about getting a bad rep should be the last thing you waste time on.

Certainly my adult sons and their friends would share your views. My partner and male friends too. I have often talked about this with them, the protective outrage from some women on MN on their behalf, and they believe its entirely misplaced. They know well what some men can be like, as they get the insider no hold barred version without the masks some will assume when women are present, so are under no illusions what some men are capable of and what that means for women. The last thing they would do is interrupt women talking about it to tell them the important thing was to be fair to men.

I agree that I don't think I know any awful men, my husband is great and I have male friends who I think are great. However -

I don't think it's OK for me to negate the lived experience of lots of women on this site. I believe them that they are in unequal / abusive relationships

You can see from things like kids parties, school pick ups, supermarkets etc how many women are in relationships where the majority of the childcare / family drudge falls on women. You can see from looking at any domestic violence stats, how many women suffer. You can see misogyny and its consequences in every aspect of life, from going into any business (where women are the admin and men are the management), court, where woman are still judged about what they were wearing etc, meetings where women are talked over, sexist jokes etc etc - literally every single aspect of life.

Im also aware that I'm very unlikely to actually know fully what goes on in someone else's relationship. How do you know how housework and mental load is split in other people's relationships? How do you know your male friends don't pester their wives for sex when they've made clear they're not interested? How do you know how they speak to each other when there is no one else around?

I kind of agree, you'll find problems on both sides but I do think the balance tips towards men in generally being more problematic. I think it also depends on a persons perspective of what "awful" looks like.

Part of me thinks it's because society's structured in a way that men generally have more power so, while a man and woman can be equally "awful", a man has more avenues to exercise it in more damaging ways.

It’s odd when people take offence to women talking about their bad experiences of men. It doesn’t mean that their aren’t good men out there.

This seems like an attempt to try to shut women up. Whats the problem with women talking about bad male behaviour? 🧐

Every woman I’ve spoken to has had many bad experiences with men. Varying levels of abuse.

My own father is physically, sexually, emotionally and financially abusive to my mother. He was also emotionally and physically abusive to me and my siblings growing up. He’d give us all the silent treatment for months at a time. He threatened to burn our house down with us locked inside. He posted loud music for days on end to punish us.

My brother is emotionally and financially abusive to my SIL.

My grandmother divorced my grandfather in the 70s due to abuse.

2 of my friends have been raped and beaten by previous partners/boyfriends.

Other friends feel they have felt the need to hide things from partners due to fear of their reaction, things like the cost of a basic pair of shoes for their children.

Other friends past and present partners sulk if they don’t get enough sex.

I’ve had men sulk to try to get their way and try to coerce me into going things.

I could go on.

Good men and women aren’t threatened by this being discussed. It takes nothing away from them.

Why are you making other women's experiences about you? If you are happily married to a man and have not experienced awful men then good for you (not meant sarcastically).

There is almost certainly something in the past of women who repeatedly have bad experiences with men but you are framing it as their fault. Of course they have to make the decision to deal with their history but I don't think it quite that simple.

I'm glad you have not experienced abuse at the hands of a man but you are ignorant about how it affects people and the choices they make. Your view is simplistic, and as someone else said naive, I sincerely hope you are never enlightened but perhaps you could try to respect other people's experiences.

*played not posted

Nice bit of victim blaming there OP.

Women, listen up, it’s our fault.

🤡

From mine and my friends experiences men aren’t great, they all cheated and lied their way through life. I’m with a great guy now but I still have niggling doubts sometimes.

Oh lord.

Where for the love of all things holy has anyone said All Men?

However when it comes to some life altering experiences ONLY men can rape. And the x 2 women a week dying at the hands of their partner? Yup pretty much all done by men.

Yes once again it's NAM. But while this violence against women persists women will indeed be angry about it. And militant hopefully

@divinededacende welcome!

oh i would like to give them a piece of my mind

can you point the posts out, pls?

Jesus christ, mate. You're so off the mark with that comeback.

I would ask them to ask themselves why that might be, too. But I'm more curious about what happened that left them unable to see that they were walking into these situations. Maybe it's bad luck, maybe it's manipulation, maybe it's a lack of confidence, strength or self-worth. If you want to be really critical, you could say this hypothetical woman is to blame for her own misery because of her choices but none of that would negate the fact that the men in question were still "awful". You haven't actually made a case for the men in this scenario.

there's currently a thread going with an OP whose husband won't make decisions. Not even what he wants for dinner. (answers a question with a question)

and at least one poster has indicated that it's because she is a woman who always must have her own way and he's afraid to make a decision because he's afraid she won't like it.

But yeah, everyone hates on men all the time here. It is our raison d'etre.

I think there's also plenty of hate for women here. Especially if they make a decision people don't agree with. Look at how people look down on stay at home Mums.

There was a pile on this week when someone wanted to not take on a higher paying role due to the extra stress.

Every single woman I know has been made to feel unsafe by a man at some point. Every one. Low level sexual harassment at work, groping and grabbing on a night out, being followed home, not taking no in the bedroom, being shouted out in the street... Right through to rape, DV, stalking etc. @MsLuxLisbon has none of that ever happened to you or anyone you know? If that is the case, I think you and your circle of friends are in a very small minority.

So we have all (most of us) experienced men making us feel unsafe or causing us actual harm. And yet, for me anyway, most of the men I know are lovely. My husband and sons especially.

It is a hard one to square, but accusing women of being sexist is probably not on.

Oh come on. You know the worst things in this world are overwhelmingly perpetrated by men. Yes there's a small number of women who are just as evil. But when it comes to deviant behaviour, 95%+ of it is committed by men.

I get fed up of the posters always popping up saying "well if a man posted this, the answers would be different". Well a man didn't post it. It's called MUMSnet. I have no objection to men using the forum but FGS allow us one space where we can talk about our feelings without the NAMALT all the bloody time.

If society broke down tomorrow, you'd soon see how many "nice" men would turn into monsters.