Is mumsnet right wing?

[BrilloPadHairball]

There are so many benefits bashing threads on here I’m really starting to wonder. Do the majority of people posting on mumsnet lean heavily to the right?

As the thread is entitled ‘Is mumsnet right wing’ I’m guessing the term right wing has been used often. I’m guessing the term left wing has been used also. I dare to guess..

@GivePeaceAChance thing is - I personally vote Lib Dem- because I live in an area that consistently votes Lib Dem- but i would vote Labour if I needed to in other areas . Ironically Im not particularly 'woke' , I am not obsessed by gender politics , however I am concerned about basic competence, a vision to help others who actually need a leg up and a desire to stamp out the sheer amounts of conflict of interest going on- it's really not on that Steve Barclay is minister of environment and his wife senior exec at Anglia water- . Also the vast amounts of public money the Torys waste on hare brained schemes instead of sorting their shit out - Rwanda as an example. I have a great deal more faith in Yvette coopers common sense and practical head than I do Cleverly or Esther McVey etc.

Yes, I'm sure Labour will struggle in some areas, the worlds a tough place in general at the moment but I'm not personally prepared to give this bunch of Tory spivs anymore time in office - and im certainly not 'very left wing' -

‘Since there is no unifying principle or philosophy behind the set of beliefs that we call “left wing” or “right wing,” the terms that emerge from this left-right view of ideology (“progressive,” “liberal,” “conservative,” “reactionary”) are meaningless in anything other than a tribal sense’ 🤷‍♀️

@AdamRyan

Thank you for the examples.

Other than "claiming" (as in the right claim this and the left claim the other) - what is actually our reality?

Theory is only good in theory and often will leave you disappointed in practice.
I detest political theory in particular. It shouldn't be a theory as there's nothing theoretical about political governing, as it can change lives completely in a split second. I don't think anyone who cares about their theory (including religious) more than they care about the reality should be in our government, running our councils, our media, places of health care or places of education.

Is it a fact that migrants are not integrating into our society/culture? Or is it not? Should we care?
The fact is - they are not integrating. Should we care? Yes we should, as in practice we won't escape the consequences of a fractured society. I've lived that tale elsewhere and it ain't pretty...

I am a first generation immigrant and I know of a few like myself - who seem to care more about the Britain fucking itself up than the British do. Every day that passes there are more right wingers slipping in, so maybe a great incentive to rethink the immigration policies and batten down the hatches? 😁
I have a degree.
Work in the creative industries. But I'm still a gender-critical (yes) right-winger (apparently).
Maybe I should just get comfortable with my position on the theoretical spectrum - it's not real after all. Like being called an infidel can only be offensive to those who do believe. I don't believe - I like science.

Accepting British political nonsense could be the last hurdle towards my full integration that and accepting sausages for breakfast.
Wait, can I even be a right winger if I prefer avocado on toast for breakfast instead of Full English?? Surely not?

It's pretty 1984-esque to take away words for people to describe what they observe imo. And in this case, only seems to be right wing people who want to remove language to describe them, whilst simultaneously happily talking about lefties/liberals.

@adam the point is not that they be ‘taken away’. The point is that they are not particularly useful labels anymore. They can cause more harm than good, and people use them against one another. They're not accurate anymore, a lot of the time. Or even worse, the same labels are used to mean quite different things. It’s problematic.

It’s basic psychology in a way. Tribal. Groups. Us vs them.

The fact is - they are not integrating.
Not a fact. Your perspective.

Should we care? Yes we should, as in practice we won't escape the consequences of a fractured society

My perspective is a "fractured society" is more likely when right wing politicians are driving division and right wing people are obsessing about what "they" are doing and insisting on dictating how other people should live their lives.

I also live in the UK and have no concerns at all about "integration" and "British culture". Culture changes. Britain today is not the same as Britain 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
Every day that passes there are more right wingers slipping in,
Do you have any evidence for this or is it just your perception?

Hmm. I don't agree. Taking away the words to describe things is dangerous. Making it so there is no way to describe patterns of behaviour, because some people don't like it, is dangerous. I'd have thought a GC feminist like yourself would recognise the dangers.

I personally don't care if someone from a different political background wants to call me a libtard (has happened on here) or a TERF (has happened irl). I'm comfortable in my politics. I'd rather debate the ideas than the names of the political positions.

It's human nature to use shorthand to describe things. I think people complaining about tribalism are trying to silence debate.

I do think we should care about immigration - originally coming from Birmingham there’s obviously very high levels of ethnic diversity. And yes there is a total lack of intergration - it completely changes an area, as more of the houses of an area are occupied by diverse ethnic groups local shops don’t get the custom (the residents are visiting ethnic shops in other parts of the city. Those local shops close down and ethnic shops open. They don’t attend local events such as carnivals, socials, etc. they stop being held. Local youth groups have much fewer members they close down. Pubs are surrounded by houses where few people will go into the pub so it closes down. Supermarkets turn over aisle after aisle tp ethnic food. Local schools spend a lot of time and budget dealing with non- English speakers, and so it goes on.

obviously some people do integrate but the above is my experience generally.

‘Hmm. I don't agree. Taking away the words to describe things is dangerous.’

@AdamRyan the first point of my post said it’s not that they - the terms - be taken away..

’the point is not that they be ‘taken away’. The point is that they are not particularly useful labels anymore’

Not altogether sure why you’ve run with that 🤷‍♀️

I’m a strong proponent of using the correct language. It is critical. As you know, the gender woo people have somewhat hi jacked parts of the English language. Parts that are slowly being reclaimed. Thank god.

Well i disagree that they are "not useful any more". I find it useful to be able to name certain patterns of behaviour.

Thats like saying biology is irrelevant to the "label" for woman, because trans rights activists have decided that it isn't.

I think it’s mad you see lots of Benefits bashing?

I see more saying ‘stealth’ ‘fuck you’ ‘first world problems’ ‘my heart bleeds’ if anyone gives any form of a hint they’re not on min wage, if they say they own a house, or have savings or disposable income

You do know you are now straight out of Trump's playbook? I can't even be bothered to debate this nonsense

What are you on about? This is my actual experience in the area I used to live, it actually happened. I’m sorry it doesn’t fit in with your ideology. If you’re that disbelieving, let’s make a date, we can meet up there and I will show you in person if you like.

Quite. A good example of why the labels of Left and Right don’t work particularly well anymore.

(Unless we’re talking about shoes or handedness… 👟 🙌 )

@AdamRyan
Its just a joke about "right wingers slipping in" - though clearly I did!

Keep on keeping on and you just might talk me out of my predilection towards British patriotism and way of life.
I'd quite like to belong but if it's not important and it apparently keeps on changing under outside influences and there is no culture to identify with then I'll have to find something more engaging I suppose or at least a group of people who don't dump on themselves in this way.

I live in a community that has been changed beyond recognition by immigration (and landlords cashing in on it). If you truly think that integration or the lack of it is based on opinion, if you truly have "no concerns" over it - you'd be in for a mighty shock upon a visit here. And my "perspective" on it is very good as far as eyes can see and ears can hear in every direction.
My child's class has two British children. Many of the rest have poor command of English and they fall permanently behind in education. Even more parents require an interpreter. It is radically different from the schooling environment in the Home Counties we lived in before and, to put it mildly, it is wrecking my child's education.
Anyway, I could describe for pages, but not to worry - coming to a street near you soon. That is, unless in a typical NIMBY fashion you have bought your way out of the consequences of your beliefs and the price of the house you live in can keep the reality of "peasants" at bay. But it's not going to be pleasant for anyone much longer - no one can live well in a crumbling society with conflicting interests and an identity disorder.
With GDP per capita being as low as it is and falling, the productivity shot - where is the money going to come from to pay for all the well-meaning but inherently stupid ideas?

Anyway, I know what it's like and where this is heading. Even the most liberal of liberals and the most communist of the left will be forced to put the brakes on, or risk being the one's behind the wheel when this cart careers off the cliff. Talk about losing face.

And also @AdamRyan are you aware that the policies you are supporting are actively making lives miserable for the migrants and the working-class British?
The numbers of migrants we are seeing, is adversely impacting on the education of my son. It is also impacting on his experience of friendships - the children of different ethnicities hang out together and speak their own language. He cried at having no such group of his own, very few friends.

There is no one we know from the houses on our street. I know the landlords in the face though.
Slum and HMO landlords proliferate in the working class areas to accommodate single men in bedsits, including migrants and asylum seekers. Families leave. More HMOs. More families leave. Soon, there isn't even a house available to rent or buy as they all have been shoddily converted to small hatches. The working class families (and even women) have been permanently displaced.

As a result of a new breed of tenant, the crime and anti-social behaviour in previously lovely Victorian streets sky-rockets.
Due to language barrier and also lack of care that temporary tenants have, the housing stock and gardens get severely neglected. I'd probably struggle to describe the impact it has on the neighbours to someone who hasn't experienced it.
They don't know and refuse to know how to deal with their household rubbish and the collection of bins. Masses of our councils budget goes on clearing the pavements after tenant turnarounds. Could spend it on something else... But it would look and smell worse here than a gutter in Delhi.

There's more but you get the gist. As an immigrant, and a working class person, there ain't no thank-yous I can extend to anyone complicit in creating this misery around me. There ain't no good deed here.

@QueenCamilla is raising a very genuine issue and it's why imo unlimited mass immigration is a very right-wing policy. I mentioned this earlier in the thread in fact.

Ignoring the issues doesn't help. We need calm adult discussions about mass immigration (without knee-jerk reactions, insults, or hostility towards immigrants) and the impact on people and communities especially disadvantaged ones.

Acknowledge that concerns about impact, especially on less advantaged people and communities (including immigrants), are very different to being 'anti all immigrants' or being anti 'people not like me'.

Relevant I think are the numerous threads on MN on regional within-UK migration. Same issues and concerns are seen about fellow British people.

There are a minority of genuine racist and or anti-incomer bigots unfortunately, but for the majority of people their concerns are about genuine issues of housing and job pressures and other impacts. As QueenCamilla points out failing to acknowledge any issues is unfair on immigrants as much as on 'born and bred' Brits. It's hardly 'Left' or 'progressive' to have slum landlords exploiting disadvantaged people, migrants and 'born and bred' British alike.

With what QueenCamilla and Devonbabs describe regarding integration. If some groups or individuals are struggling to integrate, surely it's better and kinder for everyone in the community, new and old, to look for ways to help with integration instead of denying there's an issue?

@Devonbabs

I do think we should care about immigration - originally coming from Birmingham there’s obviously very high levels of ethnic diversity. And yes there is a total lack of intergration - it completely changes an area, as more of the houses of an area are occupied by diverse ethnic groups local shops don’t get the custom (the residents are visiting ethnic shops in other parts of the city. Those local shops close down and ethnic shops open. They don’t attend local events such as carnivals, socials, etc. they stop being held. Local youth groups have much fewer members they close down. Pubs are surrounded by houses where few people will go into the pub so it closes down. Supermarkets turn over aisle after aisle tp ethnic food. Local schools spend a lot of time and budget dealing with non- English speakers, and so it goes on.

Earlier in the thread ...

Lol. I’m not a daily mail reader.

If it quacks like a duck, and writes this, then ...

These terms are required knowledge for everyone, particularly now. A good number of people on the street would not know how to define them. Trump himself can't define them - he only thinks his enemies are "fascists, communists, Marxists and authoritarians, never mind that some of those are ideologically opposed to each other. Most people have a vague notion of 'Left' vs 'Right', but not necessarily the extremes of these mean.

I do find it amusing that some posters here are using this ignorance in part to attempt to avoid saying they are right-wing voters. "You know the Tories are not really Right any more. They're more centrist, even Left-leaning". They are not. They're a solid Right-wing party, and it's okay to admit to voting for them.

What has the UK got to do with Donald fucking Trump?

You guys are obsessed with him.

That was an example. Are you aware of how examples work?

Anyway, if I was to pedantic, ignoring Trump, his potential re-election, and how that might affect the rest of the world would be foolish. The influence of those controlling him (Bannon et al.) is already insidious.

If I keep asking 'what has x (in this case Bannon) got to do with the UK, how long before we get to Hitler? Just as an example?

Hitler is dead.

“ Earlier in the thread……” what about it-it makes no sense!!!

and no, I don’t read the Daily Mail. What do you read, The Beano?