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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is mumsnet right wing?

1000 replies

BrilloPadHairball · 17/05/2024 02:32

There are so many benefits bashing threads on here I’m really starting to wonder. Do the majority of people posting on mumsnet lean heavily to the right?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 14:28

I am just sorry to see so much training of the guns on near allies rather than a search for compromise and collegiality

Are you suggesting that the men who colonise our spaces, our sports, our language and even our prisons are our 'near allies'? I hope not because that would be completely ludicrous. And why SHOULD women compromise on what they have fought so hard to achieve for themselves?

No-one is training guns on these men, that is complete hyperbole and no one wishes them harm at all that I have ever come across.
There is just a bunch of women fighting bloody hard for their rights over here and doing it successfully I might add. Thankfully we have superb women like Sharron Davies and JK Rowling speaking out for us because many of our voices are drowned out by angry men and compliant women. Long may they continue to do so. 💪

RufustheFactualReindeer · 19/05/2024 14:36

AdamRyan · 19/05/2024 11:09

😥

You do post on chat…I’m obviously not talking about you

RufustheFactualReindeer · 19/05/2024 14:41

pikkumyy77 · 19/05/2024 14:18

I appreciate those who read my, admittedly, long winded posts in a spirit of generosity and curiosity. I am thinking out loud here because this is a vital but highly contested area of political action. We need more activism, not less, in this dangerous time. I am just sorry to see so much training of the guns on near allies rather than a search for compromise and collegiality.

I think your posts are well written, i don’t agree with you necessarily but i do enjoy reading them

pikkumyy77 · 19/05/2024 14:41

Actually I meant other women, hayleyrabbit, here in mumsnet. A lot of us are involved with healthcare, prisoner’s rights, education, children’s rights already. A strictly sex based approach, or the GC approach, is not the only way to protect and extend women’s rights in these areas.

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 14:50

A strictly sex based approach, or the GC approach, is not the only way to protect and extend women’s rights in these areas

Can you elaborate?

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:01

pikkumyy77 · 19/05/2024 14:41

Actually I meant other women, hayleyrabbit, here in mumsnet. A lot of us are involved with healthcare, prisoner’s rights, education, children’s rights already. A strictly sex based approach, or the GC approach, is not the only way to protect and extend women’s rights in these areas.

I hope you’re not involved in those things.

Can you tell me how else you can protect women’s rights against something predicated on misogyny and stereotyping of women?

AdamRyan · 19/05/2024 15:02

pikkumyy77 · 19/05/2024 14:18

I appreciate those who read my, admittedly, long winded posts in a spirit of generosity and curiosity. I am thinking out loud here because this is a vital but highly contested area of political action. We need more activism, not less, in this dangerous time. I am just sorry to see so much training of the guns on near allies rather than a search for compromise and collegiality.

Yes. I've noticed this too. A focus on ideological purity and a dismissal of others, rather than agreeing on common cause.
It's a real shame because the "common cause" approach was very effective in neutralising the proposed move to full self ID. Now there appears to be a lot of infighting amongst feminists and the men in power largely continue on oblivious.

BIossomtoes · 19/05/2024 15:06

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:01

I hope you’re not involved in those things.

Can you tell me how else you can protect women’s rights against something predicated on misogyny and stereotyping of women?

You make things better for everyone. It’s really not difficult.

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:11

You make things better for everyone. It’s really not difficult

Can you explain this further? Trans women no doubt see being in women's loos, changing rooms, sports etc as much better for them - instant validation! - but it's much, much worse for women and girls. How can this circle be squared?

EasternStandard · 19/05/2024 15:11

pikkumyy77 · 19/05/2024 14:41

Actually I meant other women, hayleyrabbit, here in mumsnet. A lot of us are involved with healthcare, prisoner’s rights, education, children’s rights already. A strictly sex based approach, or the GC approach, is not the only way to protect and extend women’s rights in these areas.

Do you mean males included in single sex spaces im each of those areas you list?

BIossomtoes · 19/05/2024 15:15

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:11

You make things better for everyone. It’s really not difficult

Can you explain this further? Trans women no doubt see being in women's loos, changing rooms, sports etc as much better for them - instant validation! - but it's much, much worse for women and girls. How can this circle be squared?

How about we aim for private spaces for everyone? Single rooms in hospitals, lockable cubicles in changing rooms, unisex toilets with hand basins in lockable cubicles, single cells in prisons? Why can’t we just do better for everyone?

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:15

BIossomtoes · 19/05/2024 15:06

You make things better for everyone. It’s really not difficult.

How is this done though, because allowing men (however they identify themselves) is not an improvement for women.

So what do you actually mean?

AdamRyan · 19/05/2024 15:19

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:01

I hope you’re not involved in those things.

Can you tell me how else you can protect women’s rights against something predicated on misogyny and stereotyping of women?

I agree with Pikkumyy's sentiment so I'll answer.

Take education. Unfortunately there are a lot of gender confused teenagers out there, particularly girls. There always were but its been made worse by the Internet.

To me, a "strictly sex based approach" would be what the Conservatives appear to be advocating, which is not to teach about gender and to only teach its impossible to change sex.

The problem is we know that teenagers are high risk, ego focussed due to their brain development and do all sorts of harmful things they are taught are "wrong", because the views of their peers are more important than teachers and parents e .g. drugs, underage drinking, sleeping around, piercings, tattoos, sexualised clothing etc etc.

So in my view a more effective approach would be to embed curiosity and self-determination in children, teach about gender identity and sexuality, the difference between "gender" and biology, teach about how its OK to explore different aspects of themselves and to that end allow children to dress and call themselves whatever they like without pressure, and also ban medicalised transition until people reach adult hood - probably 21. This is basically Kenneth Zuckers approach.

I think this would enable a lot of gender confused children time to grow comfortable in their bodies and probably also realise they are gay, or autistic, not trans. But it positively supports those children and their sense of self while they are going through this, as opposed to telling them their feelings are wrong which leads to self loathing and rebellion.

Some teens will still end up being trans adults but in the meantime we haven't done unnecessary psychological damage to children who aren't comfortable in their own skin.

What I'm suggesting isn't a "GC" approach though, i think that's what pikkumyy meant.

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:23

BIossomtoes · 19/05/2024 15:15

How about we aim for private spaces for everyone? Single rooms in hospitals, lockable cubicles in changing rooms, unisex toilets with hand basins in lockable cubicles, single cells in prisons? Why can’t we just do better for everyone?

So private rooms in hospitals - not better for the tax payer, for patient safety, for mental well being spending hours in isolation, for the nurses, for the environment, just off the top of my head

single lockable changing rooms-I guess you mean a changing village, the sort where I was victim of indecent exposure when a man “forgot” his towel going to the lockers - never went swimming there again

Who is paying for the single cells? The building of new prisons to facilitate these. Are you suggesting solitary confinement? What about when prisoners mix?

Are you actually saying this could work and be beneficial?

How about if you have a Willie or ever had one you stay out of women’s spaces?

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:25

BIossomtoes · 19/05/2024 15:15

How about we aim for private spaces for everyone? Single rooms in hospitals, lockable cubicles in changing rooms, unisex toilets with hand basins in lockable cubicles, single cells in prisons? Why can’t we just do better for everyone?

Because trans women in particular do not want this. They WANT to be in women's spaces! Also how much does all of this cost? You are frankly in cloud cuckoo land if you think that the NHS will provide single rooms for all patients!

Unisex loos are often disgusting as men use them - why should women have to face this? And they are also unsafe for women and girls due to the risk of sexual assault.

Why can't women just have something for themselves??

ilovesooty · 19/05/2024 15:25

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:01

I hope you’re not involved in those things.

Can you tell me how else you can protect women’s rights against something predicated on misogyny and stereotyping of women?

I hope you're not involved in those things

WTAF? I've been involved in those things throughout my working life. Are you going to level that personal attack at me as well?

AdamRyan · 19/05/2024 15:26

Oh please let's not do toilets again.
At the moment people are dying on trolleys in cubicles and sitting in a and e waiting to be seen. Mixed sex wards are rife, against policy, due to lack of resources

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mixed-sex-wards-breach-nhs-streeting-b2534608.html

I'd rather any NHS effort was focussed on sorting these issues out first

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:27

How about if you have a Willie or ever had one you stay out of women’s spaces?

The question that they never answer.

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:28

AdamRyan · 19/05/2024 15:19

I agree with Pikkumyy's sentiment so I'll answer.

Take education. Unfortunately there are a lot of gender confused teenagers out there, particularly girls. There always were but its been made worse by the Internet.

To me, a "strictly sex based approach" would be what the Conservatives appear to be advocating, which is not to teach about gender and to only teach its impossible to change sex.

The problem is we know that teenagers are high risk, ego focussed due to their brain development and do all sorts of harmful things they are taught are "wrong", because the views of their peers are more important than teachers and parents e .g. drugs, underage drinking, sleeping around, piercings, tattoos, sexualised clothing etc etc.

So in my view a more effective approach would be to embed curiosity and self-determination in children, teach about gender identity and sexuality, the difference between "gender" and biology, teach about how its OK to explore different aspects of themselves and to that end allow children to dress and call themselves whatever they like without pressure, and also ban medicalised transition until people reach adult hood - probably 21. This is basically Kenneth Zuckers approach.

I think this would enable a lot of gender confused children time to grow comfortable in their bodies and probably also realise they are gay, or autistic, not trans. But it positively supports those children and their sense of self while they are going through this, as opposed to telling them their feelings are wrong which leads to self loathing and rebellion.

Some teens will still end up being trans adults but in the meantime we haven't done unnecessary psychological damage to children who aren't comfortable in their own skin.

What I'm suggesting isn't a "GC" approach though, i think that's what pikkumyy meant.

But it is impossible to change sex. That exactly what we should be teaching. Parents, teachers and work places need to keep reinforcing this. We are letting our children down by not reinforcing this.

“The internet”/the media has always had harmful content, we need to treat the gender madness on there in the sane way as other harmful content.

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:28

ilovesooty · 19/05/2024 15:25

I hope you're not involved in those things

WTAF? I've been involved in those things throughout my working life. Are you going to level that personal attack at me as well?

That post was not aimed at though was it? Why are you taking offence? How odd...

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:30

AdamRyan · 19/05/2024 15:26

Oh please let's not do toilets again.
At the moment people are dying on trolleys in cubicles and sitting in a and e waiting to be seen. Mixed sex wards are rife, against policy, due to lack of resources

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mixed-sex-wards-breach-nhs-streeting-b2534608.html

I'd rather any NHS effort was focussed on sorting these issues out first

Yes let's not focus on the fact that certain men get a kick out of being in women's loos, it's just so icky and other things are bad as well...look..over here!

ilovesooty · 19/05/2024 15:31

hayleyrabbit · 19/05/2024 15:28

That post was not aimed at though was it? Why are you taking offence? How odd...

I consider it a personal attack on the person it was aimed at. My circumstances are similar to hers. I'll respond as I see fit, thank you.

Devonbabs · 19/05/2024 15:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Codlingmoths · 19/05/2024 15:33

Noname1000 · 17/05/2024 07:38

The FWR topic seems to be quite right wing.

It’s quite full of life long labour voters if you read the threads?

ilovesooty · 19/05/2024 15:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I've explained why I consider your comment a personal attack. The fact that you weren't talking to me is irrelevant. Your last comment is appalling.

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