FIL 'took' Our car!

[LostMyCar]

Evening all,

I'll start by saying that I've NC as I don't want this linked with my previous posts. This is a long one so I do apologise in advance...

Dh and I live abroad and will be visiting the UK for a couple of months next month. We've been looking for a cheap car to use for the month with the intention of reselling when we leave.

FIL has been kind enough to help with the search and the other night found a good deal. He went to view the car and arranged to buy it the next day. FIL had 1k of our money (from selling a car last year) and we transferred the remaining balance of the car over. We're excited that we've got a good deal and BIL mentions that he might want to buy the car off us when we leave. Great!

The next day DH gets a message from FIL to say that he and BIL are on the way to collect the car. All good. Then BIL sends a message to the group chat saying he's going to need to borrow our car whilst his car is getting an MOT. He doesn't ask, he assumes.

Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler.
DH says no I'm really sorry but I don't want you using my car. I'm not buying it for someone else to use. FIL gets angry at this as asks why BIL is good enough to pick the car up then? DH says he thought FIL would be driving our car and BIL would drive FIL's car back. Had he have known this wasn't the case, we could have asked someone else to collect the car.

Anyway, it's all blown into a huge argument. FIL phoned DH and did nothing but shout and scream. How can he not trust his brother? He's trying to get his life together! DH reiterated that he didn't want to upset BIL but he doesn't want him having access to our car. It ended with FIL telling DH to go fuck himself and to get someone to come and collect our car off his drive way that night. Whilst all this is going on, BIL sends a message to DH saying our car drives like a dream to further antagonise the situation.

I phone my parents and ask them (1.5 hour round trip) if they would mind collecting the car from FIL and driving it to MIL's house as she has space in her garage for it. My parents kindly agreed to do so. DH messages FIL to say that my parents will collect the car from him when he's ready. A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

We suspect FIL will end up giving BIL the car. We now also suspect that BIL was probably always going to use our car instead of his own (on its way out) secretly before we return to the UK.

AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats? DH is really upset that his father has treated him this way and I'm furious at the way FIL has spoken to DH. I'm sure in time, DH will forgive them both which is fine but AIBU to want nothing more to do with them?

Thank you if you've made it this far 🙏

What makes you think he has a receipt? For all we know there may be a receipt in the OP’s name. Registering a car with DVLA has nothing whatsoever to do with ownership, it’s irrelevant.

OR she could have written

"My BIL went with my FIL to help collect a car that we are going to use when we are back on holiday. It's saving us a fortune. Now he wants to borrow the car for a couple of hours while his own has its MOT. AIBU to say no?"

And she would be slated for being selfish. Which is what happened. At no point had her BIL or FIL said anything about wanting to use the car longer than that.

Peoples selfishness on here never fails to astound me.

@KrisAkabusi would you loan something expensive to someone you thought irresponsible (and entitled by the sound of it)?

BIL and FIL both sound like twats.

OP didn't ask BIL for a favour. People who "help" without your permission are sometimes just being manipulative and wanting you to feel obligated towards them.

OP, ignore them. Just buy a different car and don't engage with them anymore. They're trying to antagonise you, don't let them think it worked.

She asked her FIL for a favour which required two people.

I think that the receipt would be in his name as he is the one who found the car, viewed the car, went to get it and handed over the money. OP could have got a receipt if she had handed over the money directly to the car dealer but obviously she didn't do that. There is no suggestion that she has any communication at all with the dealer. She transferred money to the FIL but he has transferred that back.

Perhaps because he didn't actually ask -- he told them he was going to use it.

(And the OP's husband was unaware that it was his brother who was going to drive the car back after it had been collected by his brother and his father.)

It seems some people have different views on what doing a favour for members of family actually means.

Some deem it that if a family member does you a favour you have to bend over and take it if they presume/demand/expect something in return. Ie the free use of a car by a family member who has proven to be less than reliable in the past.

Some deem it that if a family member does a favour thats the end of it. They have helped out that family member and they are free to bask in their new found sainthood.

The second anyone ever said to me they would do me a favour 'If' i would cancel the request. I would rather walk over broken glass than have someone say i am ungrateful because i refused their emotional blackmail.

I know this isn't the point of the the thread, but I'm curious - can you insure a car here if you aren't resident?

Who said it was bought from a dealer? There’s no mention of a receipt and even then it could’ve been written out to the OP. Neither of us know.

I am also surprised you asked your parents to make a 1.5 hour round trip to sort this mess out. Presumably then asking one of them to drive this unfamilar unknown car elsewhere. Then MIL has to put it in her garage for god knows how long.

It honestly does come across like you expect people to run around after you but you are not prepared to give much back in return.

All these analogies with allowing people to stay in your home are BS. This is not your home, it is some runaround old car you have never set eyes on in your life. You have no idea who may have been hooning around in it until now - what does it matter if BIL drives it? Saves it languishing in a garage, with the battery running down and the tires going flat.

This also surprises me. I have had friends try and do the same for extended trips back but can't get insurance as they are non-resident - or the insurance is astronomical. It is also very difficult to get a 'non-resident' added to your own car insurance (I have tried). This is one of the reasons why the hire care market is so hot and expensive.

Some people's reading comprehension is poor and it's showing.

"Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler."

There's no way I'd allow him to drive my car either, no matter how much of a favour my father was doing for me. I certainly wouldn't accept being verbally abused for calmly and clearly stating a boundary over this either, nor taunted.

Can you lot imagine the responses if the OP had posted that immature reckless BIL had borrowed the car and damaged it!? She'd be told unanimously that they were unreasonable for letting BIL drive it in the first place.

Surely nobody would buy a car without getting some sort of evidence that money had been transferred and you would give the receipt to the person who paid for it not somebody you had never met or communicated with and hadn't transferred the money. Unless the FIL is stupid he wouldn't say the car is his unless he had all the paperwork and receipt etc. If OP doesn't live in the UK it's probably not registered or insured in her name either.

0I can only assume that FIL bought the car and it's in his name and registered to his address. Possibly as a favour to his sons - and he's no doubt very upset that it hasn't worked out with both of his sons being able to use the car (as would seem sensible)."

He's done this with OP/DH's money though. So regardless of what's on the paperwork, it was OP/DH's car! He can't just lend out someone else's property.

It's not a favour if fil's helpfulness was done with the intent of benefitting a 3rd party - it's basically using one son's money to help meet the needs of the other son. Easy to be generous with another person's money. And it's a fair point as to what happens if bil did have an accident - does the OP return to the UK to no car and no money? Would fil refund her if that happened?

Really expensive to get insurance as a non-resident. I suspect that the plan was that FIL would insure the car as the main driver with DH (and BIL) as additional drivers. FIL would also need to be the registered keeper to keep the premium down. If DH has a UK licence which it sounds like he does, he'd get insured that way no problem. Of course the insurance company would consider that to be 'fronting' if DH was then driving the car continuously for 2 months, especially since DH would be unlikely to still have any no claims bonus of their own. I think the whole family carries some level of blame in this charade.

They were left having to find a solution, from abroad, within a matter of hours.

We have no idea what they do or don't give back to family who do them favours. We do however have the information that there is a history of the BIL being immature and reckless. By FIL's own words, BIL is trying to get his life back on track, implying that he has been off track in the recent past. That is not a man who it is wise to trust with expensive equipment - and yes I do count a car worth £1000+ as a piece of expensive equipment, even if it's cheap for a car. It's also not giving anything back to the person who is doing them a favour, as BIL is not FIL.

What does it matter if an immature reckless man assumes he can use it without seeking permission? Are you really asking that? Can your imagination really see no natural consequences to that?

They are due back in a month's time. A month off the road in a garage is not languishing, the battery won't run down in that time nor the tyres go flat - and if her parents are capable of driving it 90 minutes, I'm sure they would be capable of giving it a run and checking the tyre pressures if it were necessary (it wouldn't be, I've taken a mechanic's advice for almost this exact situation when I was out of action and couldn't drive for a month or two). FIL would be capable of it too, you know, being the responsible adult who they trusted to buy them a car.

OP you know your bil best and I’d not wanting him using my car if I were you. Ignore the posters here. You are def not being unreasonable.

Hehehehe

This whole post and ensuing comments from the OP have given me a right good old laugh.😂

Especially the part where the FIL tells his son to go fuck himself 😅

Charming. How unlike the life of our own dear King (or maybe it is like that 😆)

They don't have a car! What car?

The car they paid for, obviously.

@HisNibs you can't have a UK license though if you are not a UK resident. I found out this the hard way. You can only have a UK driving license if you are UK resident (regardless of whether you are a passport holder). Some people try and fudge this by putting their parents address or an address they have in the UK as the address for the license. This is not legal though and if you have an accident in the UK whilst driving on a UK license as a non-resident you are likely to find yourself uninsured.

But they're good enough to view, buy & fetch a car!

Surely nobody would buy a car without getting some sort of evidence that money had been transferred and you would give the receipt to the person who paid for it not somebody you had never met or communicated with and hadn't transferred the money.

I’ve bought and sold loads of cars for cash with no receipts either way, reasonably cheap ones of course.