His comment when the bill came ....

[mrprott]

I went in a date recently.
I was a little anxious before hand about the discomforts of f the bill situation but was and am adamant about splitting bills on dates bar coffees or waters etc.
I knew midway through meal that he was a test so decided to enjoy rest of meal and put it down to experience.
I suggested at the end we call for the bill. It came. He looked at it , sat back on his chair and with a swerve of his hand pointing at the bill said ..'do you want me to pay for this or what ?' In a really nonchalant voice ..
I nearly died 😂🤣🙈
I was so shocked at how he spoke to me.... this boastful, popular , millionaire( his words ? with his jaguar and photos of his palatial spread ....
The waiter caught sight of this and got awkward and left ..
I said of course we're splitting it but in my fifty years of living on this earth, I have never been asked anything like this in such a way and I was mortified.
He didn't understand this at all???
Shrugged his shoulder and that was that ..
AIBU ?

Yes these are exactly my thoughts. Also that the less than ideal wording could have been awkwardness about the topic.

Even in the mirror write-up which had been edited to showcase the issue , rather than a string of posters with differing views, I was left thinking it’s a bit like a joke without a punch line.

I get it that he was a “ test” on the date generally, but I can’t honestly say that comment was a big deal imo. I guess maybe you had to be there …

Because it's a minefield of social rules and niceties that are easy to misjudge and the next thing you know someone's really offended/embarrassed. In your example - "The bill arrives. You look at each other" Already it's awkward - you're looking at each other, trying to gauge the correct response.

"One person or the other says “Let me get it this time” But it's never that straightfoward because the speaker might just be being polite in saying that but doesn't really want to pay the whole thing, so if the other person just says "Really? Ok thanks" they might have permanently pissed off the first person. Or the second person might feel they're being patronised, or as others have said, 'bought'.

“Shall we split it right down the middle” Now one of you might be thinking 'but I had less expensive meal so a 50/50 split isn't fair.'

“How do you prefer to split it?” Cue lengthy discussion with verbal tiptoeing around - gives me a headache just thinking about it.

I hesitate to say this, because last time I mentioned it someone didn't like it, decided to hold me personally responsible for the truth of the fact I was stating and started stalking me all over the site...but fuck it. This is why etiquette/protocol exists; so that people know what to do in certain social situations without causing awkwardness or offence. If there was a set standard for what to do with the bill on a first date, everyone would relax more because following the protocol means you don't create awkwardness.

Traditionally I think the rule is that whoever does the asking pays and I don't think this is a bad rule...but if a lot of people are finding it disagreeable, perhaps it's time for one of those shifts in etiquette that happen over time as society changes.

I don't think a man is obliged to pay for a woman just because he's the man, but I do think he won't mind if he wants to see you again.

Honestly, if you can’t just state your preference without second-guessing the other person or lying to try to impress them, and can’t just say “Oh, I’m on a bit of a budget so can we each pay for our own” or take longer than 20 seconds to state your preference for splitting the bill without tiptoeing atound, then as I first stated, you are not mature enough to be dating.

Completely agree.

I agree with the observations here too.

I find the perusing of the bill a total embarrassment but some people think it’s only fair. I do have a friend who I know keeps track of what everyone is having. Sometimes if someone orders, say, an extra drink she will say to her DH “ well in that case you might as well get another too” because she’s worried they will “carry” it if the bill is evenly split. I now mentally regulate what I order by matching it to hers because I know there is such an issue around it for her. Yet I’d far rather we just split and I couldn’t care less if they had an entree and I didn’t, but paid 2.75 towards it. For me the social lubrication that comes from it has value in itself. I once went to a meal with a large group and a woman crossed everything off as people paid then stood up, clapped her hands and said” someone hasn’t claimed the samosas. I don’t think anyone else wants to pay for it and I certainly don’t!” The awkwardness that followed was indescribable. My friend then said “ it was me.” I asked if it was and he said “ no it wasn’t but I didn’t know how much more of that silence I could endure.”🤣
So everyone feels differently about these things and, with shifting etiquette, it’s created a need to ask, not tell, what is going to happen.

I know! Seems as if that one phrase has been analysed to bloody death, given a million different meanings, bit ridiculous really.

I’ve found at least six ways I can say it, ranging from outraged accusation to timid enquiry… But all of them suggest an awkward date with no chemistry which I think was the real issue.

I think the comment was probably more a last straw for OP than mortifying in and of itself .

I'm still grappling with what on earth the issue actually is.

I anticipate that there is rather a lot of subtext to all of this which the OP may care to return and enlighten us with at some stage.

You don't see why "do you want me to pay for this or what?" is a rude way of dealing with the bill?

I don't believe you. Or any of the other posters who for some reason want women to find this kind of behaviour acceptable. None of you are stupid. You all understand full well and you're not grappling with anything.

I think it’s the “ or what” on the end that people are finding abrasive. But I can easily imagine adding that if trying to leave open the idea that there were alternatives .

Meh why be mortified? You'd already weighed up he was a divvy. He proved it by handling the bill in a boorish tone (shall we split this? Would have been fine). You didn't want to see him again and don't have to. I'm not sure why you found any personal offence in this.

Well I'm married so I don't go dating but I'm definitely mature. If you don't have any problem navigating these situations that's great but I'd suggest most people do (in the UK anyway), it's nothing to do with levels of maturity and everything to do with the minefield of social etiquette.

Even "do you want me to pay for this" is rude. Say you'd like to treat them if indeed you do, or say you'd like to split if you don't. But putting the whole thing on the other person in an accusatory and presumptive manner, with clear implications of disapproval, is boorish and rude... and the "or what" is the icing on the shit sundae he doesn't want to pay for.

It's plainly rude, designed to insult and unsettle the other person and make whatever happens next both uncomfortable and yet, somehow, their fault. They now have to defend themselves against your accusation of their supposed assumption. It's horrible. And nobody reading this thread doesn't realise that.

Because I think the OP is being disingenuous. She said she had anxiety prior to the date regarding the bill and wanting to pay her share. She then realised, while on the date, that her date was in fact a twat

'this boastful, popular , millionaire( his words ? with his jaguar and photos of his palatial spread ....'

The OP then proceeded to say that he 'nonchalantly' asked whether he would pay the bill 'or what'.

We have already established that she thinks he is a twat but I don't understand the pearl clutching indignance at him saying this. I agree with @Calliopespa that this is him giving her the opportunity to pay 50/50 which is exactly what the OP wished for. The 'or what' seems to have tipped people over the edge for some reason.

Haven't read the whole thread. Has anyone suggested that the date might be autistic yet?
🤭

So if you were on a date, the bill came and the guy said "Do you want me to get this or what?", you wouldn't clock that as rude and manipulative? That would be a lovely way to finish dinner for you?

Yeah right.

Hate to tell you this, this means you were a business expense! If he wanted you to pay cash and he was putting it on his card like that it's likely he is putting the whole bill through expenses and asking you to pay him in cash as double-bubble on your part of the bill. Now you know how he is a multi-millionaire!!

you reckon?

sassyclassyandsmartassy cottoned on as well

you're rather naive @SeriaMau

… and yet it was delivered “nonchalantly.”
Not even aggressively or angrily, just nonchalantly.

I might add “ or what “ to questions such as: “ well should we head to the museum now, or.. what?” if I was wondering myself. Or “ So shall we grab pizza for lunch, or what?” It would be me signalling I was open to alternatives.

I might add “ or what “ to questions such as: “ well should we head to the museum now, or.. what?” if I was wondering myself. Or “ So shall we grab pizza for lunch, or what?” It would be me signalling I was open to alternatives.

These are not comparable questions, as everyone knows. "Shall we get pizza" isn't the same as "do you want me to pay".

Why are so many people pretending not to understand how rude and really quite manipulative the question was?

You can’t just declare people are “pretending.” We get to say how we see it. People will have different opinions - and it seems we do.

I think maybe the answer to the slightly different question “ why are people saying there is nothing so bad about him saying that?” is that it came as rather an anti-climax. It’s not as though op is a vulnerable individual in a genuinely upsetting circumstance and desperate for a hand-hold to get her through; it was mild annoyance or embarrassment that she thought would entertain people in a “ can you believe it?” kind of way . And for some of us it didn’t warrant the build-up🤷🏻‍♀️

Why are you so triggered by this?

The man in question, nonchalantly, said 'do you want me to pay for this or what?' The 'or what' clearly implying he preferred the alternative, which, under these circumstances, was to go 50/50. It's a case of semantics. Would it be more palatable for you if he had offered to go 50/50? Or perhaps 'shall I pay for this?' Plenty of people become awkward around public bill paying, irrespective of how wealthy they are. He clearly didn't want to pay for her meal so the 'or what' was to precipitate the offer from her to split the bill.

I think the OP is pissed off because he didn't want to pay, irrespective of her protestations to the contrary.

I couldn’t help but wonder if that was it …

Or she just generally found him a pita. Which in itself is fair enough.

But the more Op thought this, the more likely he is to have picked up on it; and the more he picked up on the fact the dynamic wasn’t really indicative of him coming across well in her eyes , the more he might well have felt there was a good chance she’d get annoyed around what he said around paying. Turns out, he was right.

Yes @Calliopespa, she evidently found him to be pain in the arse. I'd understand the mortification if he had nonchalantly turned around after the meal and said 'I suppose you want to pay for this' but he didn't. 😕