“Women and birthing people. “

[Riapia]

Who said that?
A doula on the PM Programme on BBC R4 tonight between 5.40 and 5.45.

I get that, but we must be talking about the tiniest, microscopically small population here. Possibly, potentially, there may be some, but if you were a trans man who had been raped and subsequently became pregnant what are the chances of you continuing to full term with the pregnancy rather than having a termination? How many trans men are having vaginal sex with a man where failed contraception could be an issue? Im sorry but if you’re a trans man having vaginal sex with a man then your gender dysphoria must be very mild indeed! it’s got to be an incredibly tiny number.

Men and ejaculators.

Men and penis havers.

Men and prostate owners.

Has this language cottoned on yet? Why not?

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here. And yes I agree in the grand scheme of things it probably is a small number, but I still think that that small number is entitled to good and accessible quality of care as are we all. In that scenario, to me anyway, all that really matters in the grand scene of things is that there is a safe and non traumatic birth where its preventable, and a healthy adult and child at the end of it. If that small group of people need a slightly different use of language to help them get that outcome, then I'm OK with it as long as my own care and access to information as a woman isn't being compromised. Which I don't feel it is in the example op listed since women are mentioned in our own right. In my last antenatal class they checked at the beginning through online survey if anyone attending was transgender and since there wasn't they used language most applicable to the group. Had there been someone there they would have used both sets of phrases again, not excluding women/ breastfeeding etc. I felt that was the most accommodating way they could have gone about it.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson

Trans terminology in medical information really does seem to be different for biological women and men.
Here's two examples from NHS information.

Cervical Screening
Cervical screening, which used to be called smear test, is a test to check the health of the cervix and help prevent cervical cancer. It's offered to women and people with a cervix aged 25 to 64.

Prostate Cancer

• age – the risk rises as you get older, and most cases are diagnosed in men over 50 years of age
• ethnic group – prostate cancer is more common in black men than in Asian men
• family history – having a brother or father who developed prostate cancer before age 60 seems to increase your risk of developing it; research also shows that having a close female relative who developed breast cancer may also increase your risk of developing prostate cancer

I have tried to find any NHS information that refers to men as 'men and people with penises' or such like. So far nothing.

I am not saying that the NHS has stopped using the word woman because thanks to feminists on here and elsewhere there has been push back.

I remember well the Boots website and it's literature which got changed back thanks to women voicing concerns.

This was their literature on their website last year.

"The menopause is a natural process which people with a vagina go through as they get older however, in some cases, is medically induced. As oestrogen levels start to drop, periods become less frequent and eventually stop altogether. For some, their periods stop quickly, but for others, it can take a few months or a few years. Everyone is different.

Menopause signs and symptoms are different for everyone and usually begin between the ages of 45 and 55, with the average age for people in the UK being 51. Whilst some choose to seek treatment plans from their GP, others will look for other solutions to help manage signs & symptoms."

Just one example.

Can anyone find a similar example where the word men or man has been erased to a people with (Insert Body part)

I think "women and birthing people" makes it sound like it's not the women who are giving birth in this scenario, just the "birthing people".

The majority of women dont care about being called cis or a person. The non-cis women obviously do and i will distinguish those by either calling them trans or Others.

This is going to blow your mind but not all trans people are dysphoric. Secondly, why do you assume they got pregnant through sex?

Good point. I will raise that it should be changed and consult with trans people about more incusive terms.

Midwifery services will probably do. They arent snowflakes.

"Birthing people" encompasses people who are non-binary, agender, gender fluod and gender queer as well as men. Just easier to say women and birthing people than list all of that and the Queers dont seem to mind being called people like some women do.

midwifery services would be an odd term to choose considering the term mid wife means “with woman”
perhaps paternity care might be better

You openly admit you choose to work with a particular demographic who are a minority and shun other demographics so I don’t think you are best placed to speak for the majority.

I think most focus groups have found that people dont mind midwife as a term. Some use birth practitioner or facilitator in America. But midwife is a professional term so there is some legal sense in using it appropriately for people who have undergone standardised training. Eg a doula cant call themselves a midwife, but a midwife can advertise as a doula.

Yes i specialise in a specific field of midwifery. A diabetic specialist midwife only sees diabetic people

It still means “with woman” no matter how professional.
Everyone knows that.

So an even smaller demographic.
Only diabetics (who are not posh or straight) according to you previous posts.
Definitely not the best person to speak in behalf of the majority about the term cis then.

Bloody hell @Mackmacking I bet given that you probably wear your rainbow colours fully on your sleeve women wouldn't dare tell you they object.

What would you do, refuse the bigots care?

Most women do object to cis, or would if they understood it's implications fully.

One of the themes that runs through the Ockenden reports, CQC findings and this weeks Birth Trauma report is the lack of listening, empathy and respect shown to women by too many staff working in maternity care. A toxic culture of contempt for women that results in massive harm happening to women and babies. Once you see that contempt, it can't be unseen.

https://www.theo-clarke.org.uk/sites/www.theo-clarke.org.uk/files/2024-05/Birth%20Trauma%20Inquiry%20Report%20for%20Publication_May13_2024.pdf

Just me? Not any other person who is objecting? 🙄

Yes we fucking well do. Stop assuming that everyone thinks in the bizarre ideologically captured way that you do.

WTF how does it affect you in ANY way. You are being called and acknowledged to be a woman, as you wish. Why is it “giving you crumbs” or anything less than what you “deserve” to also be inclusive and respectful of others?

🤬

Yes it's horribly toxic. Women at their most vulnerable being called 'cis' and being told to bow down and accommodate the misogynist and homophobic religion of gender. FFS it gives me the absolute rage.

Because that's not good enough unless transmen and non-binary people who don't wish to be referred to as a woman are called one in order to satisfy random online people who are obsessed with their gender critical beliefs (while they're a patient seeking healthcare!) 🫠

This was exactly my experience after having a c section and I was vomiting with the pain. Funnily enough it was only when my husband/penis possessing person kicked up a stink about my pain that the midwives finally took notice. Yeah because, you know, a man had spoken.

the misogynist and homophobic religion of gender.

Dear lord. This has to stop.

Trans people are here; they are trans. They have always been here; they have always been trans. They are part of human diversity and variation.

Trans people deserve dignity and respect. Recognising that is not a “religion of gender” nor is it “homophobic” or “misogynistic”. It is simply living in the real world and choosing to treat trans people like people.

Can anyone find a similar example where the word men or man has been erased to a people with (Insert Male Body part)?

Anyone?