Israel and Eurovision

[Carly944]

I've seen all the protests that Israel shouldn't have been allowed to enter the Eurovision. I don't think politics should be part of eurovision

Has everyone forgotten that a lot of countries at this stage have invaded each other, and that a lot of countries have a bloody and violent past.

The United Kingdom invaded many countries and massacred and killed many many people in the past.

Germany have obviously started two world wars.

Spain have invaded countries and done a lot of brutality to people in the past.

Should none of these countries be allowed to enter eurovision then. If we are going to put politics into it, nearly every European country would be banned from eurovision.

Israel is far from the only country in the world that have invaded and massacred people. Its awful, but it has also been awful when other countries did it. And many of them have. So I'm not sure why there was just the call for Israel to be banned

Hi all,
We have spent all morning going through this thread to remove the goading, troll-hunting, personal attacks and other contraventions of our guidelines that took place last night. We would strongly advise anyone who has been deleted to reflect on their behaviour last night and not to repeat it, please.

When was the last election?

So I’ve looked up the Bambi Thug stuff

I can’t see anything she has said that it anti-Semitic.

However I do see a great big baby and someone who is actually a bit of a bully.

I say a bully because she openly stated she cried when Eden Golan made the final. Not Israel - the decision to include them was already made - but Eden herself. That’s completely uncalled for and is essentially saying “my opinion on the matter matters more than however this nasty comment will make you feel.” Perhaps even with a “You deserve it”

She didn’t like that Israel were included and tried to weave pro-Palestinian messaging into her costume. Wether you agree with it or not, this is anti-Israel (NOT anti-Semitic) and Eurovision can’t be seen to be having an anti-another-competing-country messaging in its acts. So I support their decision on that.

I don’t think Kan broke any rules - they made some unsavoury comments, but if acts expect total adoration and approval they’re in the wrong place. Her claim that they incited violence “twice, three times” is utterly melodramatic. She wanted Eden Golan booted out, and she’s not happy it didn’t happen.

Then the interview where she cried after the final and talked about how hard it was for “us” she meant hard for everyone but Israel. And like bullies often do she claimed to be the victim in it all then said a literal “fuck you” to the people who provided her an amazing platform and opportunity. What a rebel 🙄

Her comments make me wonder if Eurovision was quite cliquey and the contestants were like mean girls in a playground excluding that one other girl then crying when called out on it.

In short: she’s a woman in her 30’s having a big tantrum because she didn’t get her way. She’s also been very rude about the EBU and it’s such a shame that someone who is actually quite ungrateful, and expected everyone around her to agree with her every thought and pander to her every whim (which I suspect has happened her whole life) got that once in a lifetime opportunity that another Irish person could have got.

I can absolutely see the hostility towards the Israeli contestant and I bet my bottom dollar this came off in real life too. It’s not necessarily anti-Semitic but it’s nasty behaviour and like I say I hope I’d never go to a work event where people are hostile to me because I live in a country where the Tories govern and tell me my presence there made them cry.

Having said that - if I was high up in the EBU I’d have got back to her about her complaint as soon as I could to avoid this melodrama. She seems like a difficult person and sometimes you just have to get things done to avoid the difficult person becoming worse.

For someone who happily makes sly digs at other contestants (who have already been booed, have to had extra security and have had countless threats made towards them) and spits aggressive language about others, she has a nerve to say that she is the one who’s had it tough in all this.

i have no sympathy for her at all, she ruined her own Eurovision experience, no one else did.

I wouldn’t open an article by Melanie Philips. She appals me.

TBH I had no idea who she was or what her leanings are.
I do now though!

Melanie Phillips - OMG.

The last time she appeared on Question Time she actuallly said (and I kid you not) that there was no humanitarian crisis in Gaza as she'd seen (wait for it) videos of stocked food markets on YouTube.

The audience reaction was as you would expect.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
why on earth would someone on mumsnet post anything coming from her.
She clearly speaks and writes a loud of lies!

@Kandalama

Herself, Maureen Lipman and Tracy-Ann Oberman are the worst xenophobic ghouls going.

What have the other Jewish women done wrong?

@YaMuvva

You don't need to hide the word Jewish.

Happy to help you out with google:

Maureen Lipman claims actors' protests against Israel are 'close to Fascism

Maureen Lipman denounces Palestinians’ right to return

So is Myriam Margolyes a Jewish woman and she is wonderful!

Miriam Margolyes condemns Israel's policy in Gaza, calling on Jews to 'shout, beg, scream for a ceasefire'

www.google.com/gasearch?q=miriam%20margolyes%20palestine&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:b81bf2db,vid:Td-8waq1160,st:0

These are easily searchable.

So as long as their views aligns with yours then they’re amazing Jewish women.

Just interesting how the oodles of non-Jewish people who’ve spoken out against Palestine haven’t been mentioned

@YaMuvva

"So as long as their views aligns with yours then they’re amazing Jewish women."

No, so long as they are not genocide deniers we are all good.

"Just interesting how the oodles of non-Jewish people who’ve spoken out against Palestine haven’t been mentioned"

Do you seriously expect me to caveat everything with a big list?

The PP were talking about a prominent Jewish woman in the media who spreads anti-Palestinian rhetoric I find abhorrent. And she is not alone.

There are also many MANY Jewish voices (and I have named many earlier in the thread) who support the Palestinian cause and are deeply ashamed at what the Israeli state is doing.

@YaMuvva

There's another very good thread now, with many links from Jewish academics and journalists.

Why not take a look

Bearing Witness to the genocide - Israeli Academic Lee Mordechai www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5051135-bearing-witness-to-the-genocide-israeli-academic-lee-mordechai

"So as long as their views aligns with yours then they’re amazing Jewish women."
No, so long as they are not genocide deniers we are all good.

So none of Miriam Margoyles' past endorsements or opinions have caused you any concern at all? There is nothing she has said or done that would make you hesitate over saying she is 'wonderful'?

So why do Jewish people in particular have the expectation to condemn Israel and if they do in face support the ONE state that belongs to this religion (which they’re entitled to and they’re entitled to be listened to as well) they’re ‘xenophobic ghouls’? What has Maureen Lipman said that’s actually ‘xenophobic’?

And the Jewish people who DON’T support Israel are ‘amazing’? I agree that Miriam Margoyles is an amazing woman but she’s said some VERY dodgy stuff in the past.

It leads me to believe that Jewish women CAN in fact be xenophobic but they’re only “ghouls” is they are pro-Israel.

Personally I think the biggest ‘xenophobic ghoul’ is Bassem Yousef who said
”These Palestinians are so dramatic: Ahh! The Israelis are killing us. But they never die. They always come back. They are very difficult to kill. I know because I’m married to one. I tried many times. Couldn’t kill her”

It’s was not in a concert skit BTW in was in an interview discussing the conflict. Does he get a free pass with not being Jewish?

Yes I still think that. They may be a member but they are not one of the 35 countries listed... so I don't know what the difference is. Perhaps you should tell me since you know everything about it? Either way it is not written into Irish law.

It disturbs me that so many things that make one antisemitic are OK to be said about Palestinians or other races or nationalities. Like it's OK to lump all Palestinians in as terrorists and/or terrorist sympathisers. I've been seeing in the last couple of days that people are even disputing the official number of dead Palestinians, like it actually matters!

E.g is the following ok?

1. Accusing Palestinians as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Palestinian person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Palestinians.
2. Denying the Palestinian people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Palestine is a racist endeavor.
3. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
4. Holding Palestinians collectively responsible for actions of the state of Palestine or Hamas.

@ScribblingPixie

I'm not aware of her every word, no sorry.

If you'd like to elaborate I'll happily take it at face value and make a judgement.

I do know she can be very candid though and is a bit of a marmite character.

Google is your friend there. But if you're not aware of anything at all I might be alluding to you then it does seem as if YaMuvva might be right.

@YaMuvva

Bassem Youssef is a comedian. He uses 'black comedy' or 'gallows humour' in the same way that Irish people and to a slightly lesser extent British people do.

He uses it to emphasise the tragedy and absurdity of the situation.

They may be a member but they are not one of the 35 countries listed.

The listed countries ARE member countries. There is no other reason the IHRA would list a country. Perhaps check what that actually MEANS for countries.

Like it's OK to lump all Palestinians in as terrorists and/or terrorist sympathisers

no one has done this on this thread, or perpetuated the list you have written out. I’m sure it happens outside of MN and if it does it would absolutely be considered Islamophobia (and it is). Usually when people are this extreme it makes the news and for good reasons.

The fact you deny that Jews face similar anti-semitism, and are trying to turn conversations about anti-semitism into “Oh but look what a few people say about Palestine” is…interesting

TBH your very vehement pushback against learning what anti-semitism definitions are and considering why countries adopt them, is odd. You’re passionate about Islamophobia awareness, great, but are hiding away from conversations about anti-semitism. Interesting indeed.

I am lurking on some threads though and tbh i’mnot surprised how people can get very agitated. There’s a lot of hate on a particular set of threads, I won’t mention which, I’d probably be banned

As if we couldn't guess 🙄

What a sad way to spend your time

My autocorrect put “Concert” rather than “comedy” - so it makes it ok that depsite it wasn’t a comedy skit, it was an interview, it’s fine for him to make these grotesque comments but it’s not fine for Jewish comediennes to be pro-Israel?
Maybe Maureen should just make jokes alongside her beliefs and it will be OK

I mean another example is Tommy Robinson - who has decided he is now a Jewish ally (the same way he was a child a use victim ally except only when he can hate on brown people). Which is ironic considering his views are about as close to white supremacy as you can get.
Why not pick on him for his anti-Palestine racist views? Why Jewish women who have a very real interest in protecting the existence of the only Jewish state on the planet and protecting against every increasing anti-semitism?

It’s an interesting choice of women that’s all I’m saying

@YaMuvva

You are very very fond of putting words in other people's mouths.

Bassem Youssefs particular comedy genre has naff all to do with a completely different persons view on anything.

Stop trying to conflate things that make no sense in conflating.

Yup

Heaven forbid a minority have a protected space free from attack without people reminding them “We are watching what you say, just so ya know”