Israel and Eurovision

[Carly944]

I've seen all the protests that Israel shouldn't have been allowed to enter the Eurovision. I don't think politics should be part of eurovision

Has everyone forgotten that a lot of countries at this stage have invaded each other, and that a lot of countries have a bloody and violent past.

The United Kingdom invaded many countries and massacred and killed many many people in the past.

Germany have obviously started two world wars.

Spain have invaded countries and done a lot of brutality to people in the past.

Should none of these countries be allowed to enter eurovision then. If we are going to put politics into it, nearly every European country would be banned from eurovision.

Israel is far from the only country in the world that have invaded and massacred people. Its awful, but it has also been awful when other countries did it. And many of them have. So I'm not sure why there was just the call for Israel to be banned

I get that
Point taken
A proof too far I can see that now that you’ve highlighted it.

🪴

I probably won’t have much of a lovely evening, which will no doubt please you, but I mean it when I say hope you become a happier person in life and stop behaving in the gaslighting dishonest ways you do.

Now folks come on. The thread will get pulled and it's been fairly civil so far.

Wow
everyones saying goodnight
i think that’s really touching
ive never seen that on Mumsnet

Goodnight @HelenHen and @MoreSettingsAvailable

It will end in a few posts luckily

BTW @HelenHen i don’t think you ever did reply saying you saw Ireland was part of IHRA - but anyway considering when you thought it wasn’t you didn’t think their definitions of anti-semitism applied to you, I’m curious to know if you now think that

Nope. It isn't one-sided. It's all gathered from the Wikipedia article(s) on the topic. So fully open to scrutiny and challenge by anyone. Go read them for yourself.

Innocent people get killed in wars. Moral high-ground crumbles beneath you. There is nothing new in human nature. Atrocities happen. That's reality.

Winners don't have to offer losers favourable terms in war. What would be the motivation to win if that was the case?

In Israel there is a free press. The actions of the IDF will be scrutinised and debated within Israel itself for decades. Professional historians in academia will build careers in Israel assessing the truth of events. Some may not like that truth. But doesn't make it an untruth.

Ghandi was assassinated by an Hindu nationalist. JFK was assassinated by a self-styled patriot. Rabin wasn't exceptional in that regard. (Although he was tactical genius as a military commander if you read military history)

Haven't looked into that particular aspect of Netanyahu you mention, but it isn't implausible. His life story is quite fascinating though. Takes "overchiever" to a whole new level!

@CuriousD

Here's one article by the Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

And another by the New York Times

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

Horribly fascinating.

"Winners don't have to offer losers favourable terms in war."

I'm not made like that. All I see is a grotesque injustice.

And that is no recipe for peace.

US propped up the Taliban to fight the Soviets and got September 11th as their thanks.

If the story is true, Netanyahu must be one of the most niave fools of modern times.

Not gonna read anything from the NYT. I have standards that I won't sink to. And I'm British.

To have justice in the conflict between nations: who is the jury? Who is the judge? Who is the executioner?

@CuriousD

Let's not pretend this is a fair fight between nations.

One has so far dropped more than 45,000 bombs, supplied by the USA on one of the most densely populated strips of land on earth, by a colossal military power, with over 2,000 tanks and unlimited firepower.

The other has neither an airstrip, aircraft or port.

mondoweiss.net/2023/11/as-jews-we-know-this-is-not-a-war-its-a-genocide/

Morning @Kandalama ;-)

That’s made me giggle.

Morning @MoreSettingsAvailable 😄
Im not sure I could cope with a day like yesterday on here.
My eyes are actually still hurting ( a sort of headachy blurred wierd feeling in the eyes that’s making me feel sleepy ) from being on the iPad / MN so long.
I don’t know how kids do it.

( I am lurking on some threads though and tbh i’mnot surprised how people can get very agitated. There’s a lot of hate on a particular set of threads, I won’t mention which, I’d probably be banned )

Here’s a great article by Melanie Phillips!:

https://archive.ph/m9PlT

I zoomed out as soon as I read someone being described as ‘goblinesque’.
Hate should not beget hate

Was that in reference to Bambie? If so, goblin is one of her own words to describe her act. I'm not sure it's hateful to use someone's own descriptors to describe them?

From the Evening Standard: Bambi Thugg self describes "as a goth gremlin goblin witch".

If you read the rest it was not because they were paraphrasing Bambi in a kind way

Well, her intention obviously wasn't to be kind to Bambie Thug but to express her anger at her behaviour. It opens "When the Irish Eurovision contestant Bambie Thug failed to bully Israel’s competitor out of the contest being staged in the Swedish town of Malmo, Thug did what today’s culture warriors feel is an appropriate reaction when they don’t get their way: the singer had a meltdown and burst into tears."

Yep
That definitely came across in her writing.

Thanks for this. Excellent article.

My understanding is that Hamas are a democratically elected party.

I don't like the use of the word 'justifies'. I was making an observation which would explain their actions. In general, if a country is occupied, it has a reason to defend itself, indeed some would argue that it has a sacred duty to do so. As for supporting Hamas: I'm on the side of humanity, of peace , tolerance and goodwill to all. It pains me to see any women, children, civilians of any religion or nation suffering violence. I pray for an outbreak of love and unity in this troubled world.