Israel and Eurovision

[Carly944]

I've seen all the protests that Israel shouldn't have been allowed to enter the Eurovision. I don't think politics should be part of eurovision

Has everyone forgotten that a lot of countries at this stage have invaded each other, and that a lot of countries have a bloody and violent past.

The United Kingdom invaded many countries and massacred and killed many many people in the past.

Germany have obviously started two world wars.

Spain have invaded countries and done a lot of brutality to people in the past.

Should none of these countries be allowed to enter eurovision then. If we are going to put politics into it, nearly every European country would be banned from eurovision.

Israel is far from the only country in the world that have invaded and massacred people. Its awful, but it has also been awful when other countries did it. And many of them have. So I'm not sure why there was just the call for Israel to be banned

The official reason for banning Russia was because it's a European broadcaster competition and the Russian broadcaster has too much state interference to be considered independent and so doesn't meet the EBU's rules. So they say anyway.

@JohnMajorJohn Good to know, although I was replying to a poster, not actually asking you

Israel isn't a European country so shouldn't have been allowed to enter. If you allow Israel why not Pakistan or Mongolia etc......where do you draw the lime?

The clue is in the competition name which is the Eurovision song contest. Rename it the global vision song contest if you want random countries like Israel to join.

It's about membership of the EBU - European Broadcasting Union which Israel is a member of. So is Australia. That's why they enter.

I think the thing is that with russia it was very one sided- they invaded another country that was completely minding its own business for absolutely no good or even coherent reason. And are not waging a genocidal war against them.

There are no two ways about it.

Nearly every other way, including Israel/ Palestine, is more complicated than that. Their history is not “one good/ one bad”, Oct 7 was a horrific terrorist incident, but now Israel is committing war crimes against civilians in response. Plus there’s the factor of who is funding Hamas. Then again, both Israeli and Palestinian people deserve a country and security. So it’s not nearly as cut and dried!

Also this re the being in Europe question

We should be horrified at what this Israeli government is doing to Palestine. We can't just say well other countries have done it - we look back at those in horror and wonder how people let it happen. But here we are letting it happen. A genocide right before our eyes.

Make no mistake the children of Palestine deserve this no more than the victims of October 7th. Killing children and civilians should never ever be seen as an appropriate response. There is a reason it's a war crime.

I forgot about Australia's entry!

I was going to say this. Banning a country for current atrocities is a bit different from events that happened prior to our lifetimes.

Taking it to playground level, the argument is about "who started it". Russia invaded Ukraine - clear cut case of aggression.

Israel would argue that they didn't "start it", they were responding to Hamas's actions on 7th October.

It's the fact that they are doing it presently that is the problem.

if the UK withdrew their RAF personnel in Yemen, that conflict would end. It’s our planes and our forces training pilots to fly and bomb the shit out of civilians and are complicit in the horrific famine where babies and children are dying every single day.

Yes. That added a lot to the conversation. Thanks for that. Like I said. This could go on a while.

Anyway I’m done with the ‘you can’t say anything these days’ crowd. It is pointless. No one is actually saying all criticisms of Israel are anti-Semitic. Like you said, there’s plenty of Jewish people speaking out about Israel. Just don’t say anything actually anti-Semitic and you’ll probably be fine. Hth!

They are not before our lifetimes. The U.K are currently involved in a lot of things

Are you aware that the U.K. attacked Yemen this year?

That's just one example

I don't accept that piss poor argument at all. I am not antisemitic for disagreeing with the Israeli governments actions in Palestine. I don't pretend to know what an average Israeli feels about it. But the actions of the Israeli government and army are indefensible.

I'm a bit shocked that people don't even to see that other things are even going on at present.

Are people aware that the U.K. attacked Yemen this year?

Were you even aware until this thread?

Did we kill 35000 people, most of them children in the process?

Thought not.

See my post. The UK is actively engaged in Yemen and we’re launching offences in January against Houthi rebels. It’s ironic to see UK asking us to donate to help the starving population, while ensuring this war can continue. Babies are dying because their mothers are starving. Children are dying because the land is trashed and crops can’t be grown and people to weak to tend the bit of land that remains fertile.

Op. Can you expand on your claim that the Uk attacked Yemen.

Israel was invaded on October 7th.

Yes, they targeted Youthi sites after more than 45 attacks on western commercial vessels.

I agree. It is indefensible. I still think saying ‘all criticisms of Israel are met with accusations of anti semitism’ is wrong. Don’t say anything anti semitic and you’ll be fine.

I haven't. I wasn't worried.

Oh, is Gaza a country of its own? That controls its own borders and decides what it can import and export? That has control over its own medicine, food and water supply?

Israel was attacked on October 7, but not sure how you can call it an invasion.

Well Russia was the aggressor against Ukraine so there is that. It was Isreal that was attacked on 7 October.

no boos last night against Azerbaijan though, even though they are in the midst of ethnically cleansing against Armenians.

If people are so sure Israel shouldn’t be there what about other countries involved with conflicts? What’s the difference?

https://apnews.com/article/armenia-azerbaijan-nagorno-karabakh-blockade-2a9fb9852534ab38656a99b435f0ba86